Train prices where is the logic?

[amazingtrade]

I need to get from Brighton to Manchester so I was expecting to pay at least £40 for this as its costing £25 to get to London by train from Manchester.

To my amazement the cost of getting to Brighton to Manchester (a good 240 miles) is just £16 by train and it takes four hours.

The strangest thing is you have to actually change in London and get on exactly the same train you would if you're going from London to Manchester. I tried the price of that and it was £25, so how come its cheaper to go on an extra train?

It costs £12 on the train to get from Manchester to Blackpool.

 

[ditton]

now you know why you have spent three years honing your fine mind: the world is not an easy place to understand.

The key to the explanation is that pricing is not the same as costing, and that the prices you have been looking at are 'specials' where its the marketing that matters. Or perhaps there is a new scheme whereby people living in London are being paid £9 to leave the city?

 

[GAZZ]

I use the train lot and it depends on what time and day you are going, which operator owns the stations and what operator runs on the lines. If it is a special price ticket there may only be 50-100 tickets per day at that price. If you know what time of day you will be going, do not leave it until the day of travel to buy your tickets, as this can cost more.

 

[amazingtrade]

I use the train lot and it depends on what time and day you are going, which operator owns the stations and what operator runs on the lines. If it is a special price ticket there may only be 50-100 tickets per day at that price. If you know what time of day you will be going, do not leave it until the day of travel to buy your tickets, as this can cost more.

Yeah this was a 14 day advanced ticket. It still dosn't make sense that the if I was to book the 13:09 train from London to Manchester its dearer than the getting the same train but saying you want to go to Brighton.

Next time I am going to London I am going via Brighton but I just won't make that connection Of course I will check its still cheaper.

I think all this must come down to marketing, whats even more odd is once you start with the first class business travel the savings are hundereds. £130 Brighton to Manchester, £500 London to Manchester. WTF?

 

[ditton]

With trains, as with internet services such as ZG, the marginal cost of the next passenger is zero or very close to zero, as nearly all the cost is sunk cost. with trains, there is the extra cost of fuel, etc , of running that particular train, but it was timetabled so there's little discretion, hence the cost is effectively zero.

so then there's the matter of generating revenue. If sales (rather than sponsorship, subsidy, advertising or onward sales) is the primary mechanism, then since revenue = price x quantity, the trick is to extract what you can from the market. So, high revenue, from high pricing, from those that have deep pockets, mostly business; and once done, to graduate pricing to extract maximum revenue, down to the very special deals that can be used to put on the adverts - 'OK you Mancs, have a bit of Brighton Rock for £16'.

That helps general competiveness against planes, even the cheapo ones, and the coaches.

The top standard price is probably about £200, I think.

 

[amazingtrade]

It used Trainline it didn't say it was a special offer though, but you have a point about planes, I suppose this is the only competition apart from coaches and they have to compete against that.

I just hope the offer is still on today.

 

[ditton]

sorry, I should not have said 'special deals', as I just meant very low prices, at which only a fixed number of seats are sold - and at very restricted conditions. if you want felxibility, then expect to pay more.

 

[amazingtrade]

Yep I guess if you have a train with 200 seats and have sold 100 at full price and you have another 100 to fill you want to reduce the price to fill it up as any revenue is better than none.

 

[ditton]

a very standard graph in economics has quantity (Q) on the x-axis and price (P) on the other. in general, the demand curve is downward sloping. for a given price level, there are some who enter the market, but a number who wont. if several prices can be offered, for products that have non-price differences, then this maximises revenue = P.Q

the average cost curve can also be plotted, as can the 'marginal cost', the cost of doing the next one. the marginal cost represents the minimum its worth setting a price at (loss leaders apart)

 

[lhatkins]

Is that with a railcard? Cos that's cheap, I have a DSB which gives 1/3 off, and its still something like £15 for a day return to Bristol.
In my experience, it seems to be based on the time of day and day of the week (prices increase by 1/3 at least on a Friday for example), how far in advance you book, which trian operator, and the direction of the wind at the time of booking!

A recent example was a trip from Exeter to Egham,
From Exeter to Egham on GW = £24.40
From Exeter to Egham on South West Trains (ragecoach) £34.25
Ok this example uses 2 different lines, more changes, and takes longer, but they both start and end at the same place so you'd think it would be the same price. (I just know Ian's going to correct me here!).

 

[joel]

Yeah this was a 14 day advanced ticket. It still dosn't make sense that the if I was to book the 13:09 train from London to Manchester its dearer than the getting the same train but saying you want to go to Brighton.

When I went from London --> Paris on the Eurostar last year, it was cheaper to buy a business class return than a one-way economy ticket.
Marketing is one thing, but UK pricing really is *insane*. The UK is a hideously expensive place to travel in to boot.

 

[ditton]

buying hifi at the standard (RRP) price is quite expensive.
buying s/h offers prospect of bargain, relative to the RRP.

so too with standard single and return tickets - its the published price, the same as the 'rack rate' in a hotel. you can always pay that price, and you shouldn't be asked to pay more, but if you look you should nearly alwats be able to pay less. the 'business class return' competes directly with the airline pricing. there will be daytrip excusion fares.

... and there are always bucket shops that shift tickets, just the same way that some hifi is shifted as boxes

enjoy the maddness

 

[amazingtrade]

Last year in spain I had to travel from Barcelna to Blanes, its a good 30 miles away it cost about £1.40 and that was the standard rate I paid just before I got on the train. In the uk that would be about £10.

 

[amazingtrade]

Its costing me virtualy the same price to get to London to Brighton. I think TVU should start a BSc in train prices.