Trying to pick a new CD player--Aaargh

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Hard 8

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I confess: sometimes I buy stuff without listening to it. Usually it works out. It's just that I have no good stores around here (central California), and even if I did, I don't trust the stuff to sound the same in my home. Plus the prices are so much better on line.

I just bought a used NAD S300 amp, which I love, and used Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MII speakers, which I also love. My current CD player is a cheap Denon DCM-370 HDCD changer. I bought a used NAD S500 CD player to replace it, but it got damaged in shipment and I'm awaiting a refund, which may or may not materialize soon.

Anyway, I don't want to spend much more than US$800. I'm looking at some new or used players, including the Roksan Kandy, JoLida 100A, and Music Hall CD-25 (or Shanling equivalent).

I'm wondering about the valve versus solid-state output stages on these units. If I got the Music Hall, which has transistors, I would upgrade the op amps. Does anyone have an opinion on the sound quality of the JoLida, which has valves?

Also, one of my pet peeves is plastic CD trays. Why do the Philips transports that everyone seems to use (even Krell, I hear), have plastic trays? Aluminium is so. much. nicer. and I doubt it costs more than $10 or so to mass produce a transport with an AL tray.

Speaking of which, does the JoLida, which has the Philips cdm12 transport, have an AL tray or plastic?

Anyway, I'm interested in any and all ideas for a nice CD player. Balanced outputs or HDCD decoding would be a plus, but I really just want something with pleasing sound, great imaging, and with luck a silver metal faceplate and simple controls. A metal tray would be a huge bonus.

Thanks.

P.S. I keep reading about "rhythm" and "pacing" in reviews. I just don't get how those terms apply to sound reproduction, as compared to the music itself. Seems like wanking to me. Anyone?
 
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Not very helpful reply but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a CDP with a tray that's anything other than plastic.

As for "rhythm" and "pacing" search the forum for PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing). It's a nebulous concept I'm not really sure I understand the meaning of either but I think I know it when I hear it. It's the thing that Naim gear (amongst others) is supposed to be so good at. Careful though, the current internecine wars about subjectivity vs. objectivity are a walk in the park compared to some forum wars that have erupted over the "flat earth" (PRaT is important, everything else like soundstage etc is secondary) vs. "round earth" (soundstage, space, air, detail, etc are the most important thing) issue ;)

Michael.
 
Thanks, Michael! Sounds like the supercharger v. turbo wars on the Miata.Net forum. Heh heh. I guess I'm a round earther.

I do believe that my Mission DAD7000R CDP had a metal tray. And I hear that some Cray player (which actually has the cdm 12 transport) has one.

Maybe I should start that issue as a new thread (perhaps I shall), but what is up with that? How can any self-respecting manufacturer of a $1,000-plus CD player use the same basic plastic tray found in a $20 CD-ROM drive? That is simply amazing to me. Doesn't that surprise anyone else here?
 
My old Linn Karik has a rather nice metal tray. And I believe the same is true of Ikemi and presumably on upwards in the range.

It's an important part of the 'feel good' factor. IMO.

Paul
 
The only purpose of the tray is to convey the CD into and out of the player. It plays no part in the actual playing so why does it matter if it is made out of plastic. Seems to me like using metal would be pointless window dressing.

As for your choice of players, I think if it was me I'd keep looking for another S500. It will sound good and it will look great next to your S300.
 
I am positive that the plastic tray does nothing to detract from the performance of the CD player. For that matter, plastic buttons and a plastic faceplate would be fine, from a functional point of view.

But ... when spending almost $1,000 on a piece of fine electrical equipment, do you really derive satisfaction from having one of the only pieces that you actually touch be made out of lightweight plastic? Have you tried a CD player with a metal tray? It's cold. And heavy. And feels well made.

Many of the plastic trays I've touched will actually flop around from side to side, or up and down if you wiggle them just a little bit. They look, and are, cheap. They feel cheap. They look and feel just like the CD-ROM drawer on my PC. Compared to the faceplate on the rest of a nice CD player, or even the faceplate on the tray itself, well, there is no comparison.

Of course, I'm only talking about aesthetics here. Look and feel. But they are a big reason why I like audio equipment in the first place. Just as I don't like the faceplate to scream "$75 CD player," I don't want the tray to convey that message either.

Sorry for the rant. Too much coffee today.

As for the S500 CD player, I have learned from a certified NAD repair technician at Henry Radio in Los Angeles (a huge place), that the original S500 (not the current S500i) has a laser device (the entire assembly) that may go bad after a few years, and there is no way to get a replacement unit for it. So an S500 may simply die and be worthless after a while, unless yours happens to be one of the ones that never breaks, which also happens.

The S500i appeals to me but is probably out of my reach.
 
hiya,

Given that you're in California, Id be looking at getting US kit or Canadian kit from Audiogon.

Why pay extra to import UK kit?

Im trying not to reccomend brands (although I want to), because my taste might be very different to yours.

Just get something with a great name at a bargain price from audiogon, and you can always sell it back on for similar cash if you dont like.

By the sounds of it a home audition is impossible anyway, so you might as well get bargain you can sell on if you make an error/upgradeitus strikes.
 
hard 8,
i know what you mean about plastic cd trays. my advice would be look into top loaders or naim cdp's.
cheers


julian
 
Thanks, guys. Is this Forum exclusively British? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious: I was asking you guys for advice on products that I can actually buy here in the U.S., not in the UK. And I do surf Audiogon regularly. It's where I got the Dynaudios, S500 (broken) and S300.

Hey, I just found a great deal on a new S500i here in the U.S., new. Maybe that's what I'll get, plastic tray and all!
 
Hi

Its not exlusively british, no siree! We welcome everyone.

The general populace are Id say 90% British, 10% rest of world... just guestimates.

Hope you find something you like :)
 
Mark Levinson no.39 cd/processor uses Aircraft grade ultra slim aluminium for its tray. mmm

er, thats it, sorry for o/t :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Trying to pick a new CD player--Aaargh

Originally posted by michaelab
Not very helpful reply but I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a CDP with a tray that's anything other than plastic.
Click to expand...

Sony CDP-101 (the first)
Philips CD104/Marantz CD54
Sony CDP339ES? (Henryt??)

I thought the Naim CDPs were plastic ABS trays with metal fronts, Julian? Certainly their toploaders are metal though :)

I hate plastic trays too - if I wanted a cupholder I'd buy one!

Shame the laser mech died in my Marantz CD54 - it was built like a tank and was as sluggish as one (it used the original Philips laser mech as fitted to the original 1983 Philips CD100 :)
 
Re: Re: Re: Trying to pick a new CD player--Aaargh

Originally posted by domfjbrown

I thought the Naim CDPs were plastic ABS trays with metal fronts, Julian? Certainly their toploaders are metal though :)
Click to expand...

I was sure that the last time I looked that my pull out tray on my CD5i was metal.

What about meridian CD players, is their drawer metal?
 
hiya,

my meridian 500 is plastic, albeit a massive chunky plastic drawer.

:)


How about an Audio Research top loader 2nd hand?

Cant get much more bomb-proof looks than that.

I cant comment on the sound (havent heard one) but I like the look/construction.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Trying to pick a new CD player--Aaargh

Originally posted by Mr_Sukebe
I was sure that the last time I looked that my pull out tray on my CD5i was metal.
Click to expand...

The front panel is metal - I'm SURE the actual draw is some kind of plastic though.

I'll have another look tonight though :)
 
Re: Re: Re: Trying to pick a new CD player--Aaargh

Originally posted by domfjbrown
Sony CDP339ES? (Henryt??)
Click to expand...
Yep, and most Sony ES CDPs come to that. :cool: My ex CDT an Accuphase DP90 also had a metal tray draw on it, it used a custom modded Sony transport.
 
I think the worst is that large Meridian (can't remember the name) about £7k with a computer CD rom tray!!! Please... I'm sure it's all great but that is hugely tacky.
 
That's because Meridian use CD-ROM transports so they can read the CD at higher speeds into a buffer before the DAC for minimal jitter. Personally, allthough I like aesthetic touches, I'd forgive a tacky tray if the sound quality was better :)

Michael.
 
Hard 8
Proceed CDP has a specially made, milled from one piece of aluminium, certified 'ard as nails, draw. Luckily it sounds good too. About 4-5 years old now too, so second hand bargains should be available.

Talking of which, does anyone know what the Marantz CD23 performed like? Manual lid beasty of about 8 years back I believe.
 
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So ... I wound up ordering a new NAD S500i, plastic drawer and all, for $US 799, which is a pretty good deal, I thought. Maybe they're not selling well here. (The MSRP is $US 1499.)

On reflection, my theory is that the few companies, such as Sony and Philips, that have the resources to engineer and build something as complex as a transports, have the market power to determine how they're built. High-end companies like Krell just don't have the clout to tell them how to build them.

If Philips is going to spend $20 million or so (I made up that number) to design a new transport, it can amortize the R&D and production costs, and turn a profit, only by selling hundreds of thousands of units, most of which will wind up in low-end or mid-level systems. High-end companies have little choice in the matter, and it's just too expensive to build their own.

Which makes me wonder as to the origins of the transports that do have metal drawers. Maybe the companies selling them took apart the Philips transport and replaced the drawers?

That seems to have been the case with my dear departed Mission DAD7000R, which started out as a lowly Philips/Magnavox unit with a plastic drawer. The Mission's metal drawer and transport were so beefy (I have heard this but did not try it) that if you put the player behind a glass stereo cabinet door and hit Open on the remote, the tray would either break the glass or push the player backward off the shelf.

Now THAT is what I'm talkin about! I still say, if you're going to spend $1,000 on a CD player, it should have a real drawer.
 

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