TVC Compatibility

I know there's quite a few other threads concerning this technology, however being somewhat a lamen in respect of the techy side of things, I am hoping someone can advise me whether my cdp and power amp are a good match, electrically speaking:-

My cd player has the following charachteristics:-

Output Level - 2.1VRMS in either balanced or single ended
Output Impedance - 100 Ohms single ended, or 200 Ohms balanced


...and my (soon to arrive) power amp the following charachteristics:-

Input Sensitivity - 1.2V for rated power output (which is 65W)
Input Impedance - 100 kOhm single ended, or 200 kOhm balanced
Overall Gain - 26.5db
Damping Factor - 10.5
Output Impedance - 0.7 Ohm

As both my cdp, and power amp has balanced (XLR) capability, it would seem to make sense going for a pre with balanced sockets. Would you agree that this is better than unbalanced RCA's?

There seem to be loads of options - Music First, Django, Bent Audio, Glasshouse etc. Which ones have the Stevens and Billington TX102 transformers that are meant to be so good? Or are other transformer makes as good now? There's a massive price difference between say the Music First option and the others. Which are best from an overall sound quality perspective, and also which are best from a bang per buck angle?

Would be grateful for any advice.

thanks

 

Hi,

Music First is the Hifi end of Steven & Billington (S&B), so they use those transformers. Older Django TVCs used S&B transformers but now use Silk audio transformers. Bent audio Use to uuse S&B transformers but don't. I think they will be selling their products using some other transformers.

S&B have stopped supplying other companies.

I have an older Django which is excellent. I did loan mine to a friend who had a Music First TVC. Not much in it. They both have the same transformers but different switches, wiring & sockets. The Django is a lot cheaper.

As for which is the best, I don't know. I have heard that the Silk tansformers are even better but can't confirm. The Glasshouse looks like a good one.

Also Promithes Audio make a range which start at around £170 upwards.

Some people prefer single ended to balance. You have to suck and see. I have had excellent results using the balanced on my Django. It does give more gain and should be fine with your equipment.

SCIDB

 

Your CD player and power amp will work wonderfully with a TVC. The high input impedance of the power amp is very suitable. (most are more like 20K ohm, rather than 100K)

I'd go for balanced connections and float the outputs. That means, no ground connection between the pre-amp and the power amp, only the + and - phase of the transformer output. This will break the pathway for noise to travel along the ground line between components.

I'd got for the Music first or older Django with S&B transformers if you can afford to.

 

Thanks for the info chaps.

Just realised that the Silk transformers TVC Django, uses transformers made by the company that makes my on order power amp - SAC Thailand's Glowmaster KT88. Don't know if that implies there might be a synergy between the components, but based on the reasonable price for the Django c/w silver hook up wire, solid silver RCA's etc, it's probably worth having a punt. Works out at something like £850 delivered in comparison with MF's £1600 odd.

 

SAC Thailand used to have a TVC around their Silk trannies and in case it's out of production, maybe you can order a custom one.

 

There is a member of vinyl engine who seems very impressed with the Silk transformers and i am giving serious thought to buying the full kit, especially with the dollar/sterling exchange rate as it is at the moment ( roughly 2 dollars to the pound).


http://www.sacthailand.com/Transformer_MC.html

Best wishes

Ian

 

Looking at SAC's website, they do indeed make a TVC. Only single ended connections though, 2 of them (which is fine for me, using just a cdp). It would seem they retail for £475 over here. They don't offer the XLR connection option. Stange, as that seems to be one of the selling points of their KT88 power amp which offers balanced. Perhaps they might do a custom one. Hmmm, will have to email them and see.

:boogie:

 

sure they do balanced as a custom option

 

I made some enquiries with SAC a couple of days ago re ordering one of his STA-522 TVC's only to be refered to his UK representative ~

" Hello,

If you live in UK, pls kindly contact our dealer "Gary Gardner" from
AcousticPerfection. Gary will be able to provide you with the
products/services you request.
In case you have technical question, pls kindly contact me directly."

You will not be too surprised to find the usual UK mark up

Rather dissapointing if SACThailand are going down the UK franchise only route as the $/£ exchange was one of the main reasons for considering them

 

arrange a delivery address in a EU country with no SAC dealer and you are fine

 

Re tvc compatibility

hi see linc

F/S Music First Copper Passive Preamplifier

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just about 2 years old cost £1700 selling at £995
Cheers
John

http://www.midlandaudiox-change.co.u...s/DSC03281.JPG

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Last edited by Midlandaudiox : 28-02-08 at 01:03 AM.

 

My cd player has the following charachteristics:-

Output Level - 2.1VRMS in either balanced or single ended

That sounds a little odd?
Fully balanced should be around 4V.
I would hazard a guess that you have a pseudo 'balanced' output there - & it would be worth checking whether single ended sounds better or not.
As others have said - the S&B works fine with balanced (mine is fully balanced) but you do lose a little bit of travel on the volume knob with 4v input.
As for does balanced sound better than s/e then it realy does depend on whether the whole system was designed around being fully balanced or as to whether it was sort of an afterthought. Also just how long are your i'cs going to be? Balanced does make far more sense if you intend using long runs between pre and power. Please do check and see which you actually prefer - using similar make cables. You will undoubtedly usually (but in your case this wont happen as the output voltage is the same?) hear an immediate difference in volume - but there are usually far more subtle things going on as well.

 

Stephen,

Certainly the power amp blurb makes a play on being a fully balanced.....

"We have set new goal to implement the newest true balanced circuit topology from input stage, driving stage and output stage to ensure the absolute purity and authority of signal transmission that is better than any conventional unbalance amplifier. Our true balance circuit is based on new balance amplification principle which we utilize to help cancel harmonic distortion that enable our design to focus on finding the most linear portion of each circuit stage to realise the fullest linearity and minimizing the use of negative feedback."

...the cdp, a Bel Canto CD1 I'm not so sure. I cribbed the output stats from their website. No mention as far as I can see of pseudo balanced. What is that and if so, in respect of the cdp, would it mean I would potentially be wasting time in going down the balanced route?

http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_CD1.html#

(see the 'specifications' tab)

Re: cable lengths, the pre and power amps, and cdp will be on adjacent shelves. So max 1m cables in between each.

Thanks

 

Freddy,
to be absolutely honest, short of listening to the system it is nigh on impossible to say.
I would hazard a guess that as the system is made up of independant seperates, some of which may not be 'true' balanced it is going to sound just as good on the s/e inputs as it does the balanced - if not better. As your i/cs are just on the 1m mark - unless you are absolutely certain that the difference is worth the additional cost of the balanced leads I would personally veer to that route. You will also get a much greater degree of volume control which may or may not be usefull.
Edit - you actually wont get any more volume controle as the output of that cdp is the same on either..

 

Re tvc compatibility

hi ive noticed a bent audio here for sale see link



Product Information
For Sale

Bent audio
TVC preamplier Price: £745

RRP: £1500


Description
This TVC passive pre-amp. is the sibling of the Music First TVC. However it is better than a Music First as it has the S&B TX 102 mk.1 transformers,which sound better than the Mk.2 used in the Music First ,which are "drier" sounding.It has 6 inputs(3 RCA and 3 XLR)and 2 outputs(1 rca and 1 xlr)When using XLR in and out,it operates in a fully-balanced mode,It easily surpasses a Promitheus reference

Contact: steven
Seller: Private seller
Telephone: 01962713832
Telephone:

Email: [email protected]

Location:
hants
UK


Advert No: 114296
Date placed: 12/03/2008

 

I wouldn't go for anything with older than MK3 TX102 transformers. The MK3 is where it got really right.

 

I wonder if he has heard the reference Music First? It has completely different transformers.

 

not surprising they gave up on 102 trannies.

 

They havn't given up on them, the standard Music First still exists. The MK3 is a very good transformer, I use 6 in my own system.

 

where did you manage to squash 6 of them?!