Wadia 860 thoughts....

D Louth 77 said:
The warm up issue is more obvious when using balanced over rca
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What exactly is "balanced over RCA"?
Anyway, I'm with Robbo on this. Equipment does not require warming up. Though of course thinking that it does puts some people in a better frame of mind...
 
D Louth 77 said:
Okay Guys

Keith and class A, i am not talking a load of crap ! and i am sick of narrow minds and narrow attitudes . It is generally accepted wisdom that some CDP need to be left on to sound their best . The Wadia,Moon and Tda 1541 dac users being some of the others(this includes the AMR CDP).

With some players the improvement is small but worth having and with other the machines i have mentioned the improvement is more dramatic . Now if you cant accept this fine but stop being so aggressive about it ,as they say where i come from "Wind your Neck in." I know what i have heard/and others ,over the last 18 years of listening to many different makes of cdp,proper run in and warm up makes a difference. I wish it didn't what savings in electricity bills i would have made but the sound improvement is worth the cost. All my current CDP are always left on .

I throw down a challenge to anyone who reads this thread who does not leave their player on all the time to leave it on over the next week and post if you feel the sound has improved and if so buy how much and in what way. In some cases i suspect it will be only by a little in others cases by a lot especially if its a multibit player TDA1541 or a Moon or Wadia(which should be on for longer,but you will still hear a better sound. If you do leave it on for the month)

Class A have you ever owned a Wadia if not keep your ill-informed opinions to your self please. If you have experience outline it in detail please ,otherwise only comment on what you have experience of and don't be guilty of what you have accused me of ,I.E "Speaking crap" yourself. And as for this being a stupid theory no class A its a fact not a theory. I at least can qualify everything i say on this forum and i usually do,unlike others,who make sweeping statements and don't offer any experience or details to back up their so called truth. Come on guys start sharing what you know and how you know it,so we can understand how you came to your conclusions .

I agree with Keith(coops) that anyone interested in buying an expensive player should hear them in his or hers system but equally i should have thought (i do) that you should offer all your potential options the best possible circumstances to give their best and if that means 800 hours of run in or being fully warmed up(IMO and others at least a month with the likes of Wadias)what have you to loose to do this. If you aren't prepared to properly access products then frankly you are wasting your time and everyones else who reads this forums time IMO and coops i am not necessarily talking about you when i say that.

I accept Keith in the context of your system that you didn't like the AMR/or it was not compatible,but that does not mean it does not work well and brilliantly else where.

Increasingly Frustrated D Louth
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D what you are talking is dealer bollocks.I f the players are no good don't sell them.
 
Joel,

"balanced over RCAs" means using the XLR connectors on the back of the CD player to connect to balanced inputs on the amplifier (if present), rather than the standard RCA "phono" sockets that all CD players and amps use (these are also referred to as "single-ended", although I have no idea why)...

Hope this helps.

Neil
 
Hi coops,how dare you level such an accusation at me . This has nothing to do with retailing/dealering unlike many who lurk on this forum . As i have stated before as a Zg member i am following no hidden agenda . The comments i make are down to me and no one or anything else. They are based on my experiences over the last 18 odd years and are clean . You want to disagree with me fine but how dare you make that kind of a statement.

The comments i have made in regard to Compact disc players goes for every single one ever made,every brand that i have heard or owned ,which is quite a lot. All improve with run in and sound gets better with being on . This varies a bit from model to model and technology used but it is universal with some needing more than others.

Keith all the players i own sound brilliant in different ways and i always make sure to do whatever is required to give them the best chance to work fully as i do with any kit i own or have involvement with.

Talk about being arrogant, the gear you do/sell/represent, may be very good ,i have never heard any of it so i offer no comment on it. You have no idea what i do or don't do as i am not part of this forum to make money . What i do for a living or not is not part of my comments ,so don't ever say what i say is dealer bollocks . I am a free thinker and believe what i believe because it is what i have heard ,but unlike you who seems to have a closed mind ,i at least pride myself on having an open one and unlike many i will qualify what i say. I am also happy to admit when i might be wrong and on this issue i would state my life on it . I know what i have heard over the years ,and i am 100% certain. And if members want blow by blow descriptions of how the sound improves i am quite happy to do so.

Joel in this case the sound from some players that are dual differential (ie the Wadia and Moon Andromeda ) true balanced sound better earlier on using their rca outputs rather than the balanced ones. The sound is over heavy and rich with a closed in sound . As they warm up this opens up and the thickness in the lower mid and bass becomes much more detailed,dynamic and fine detail shines through . The whole sound opens up like an audio version of a sun flower. When warm up is complete the balanced/xlr outputs will usually sound better than the rca outputs . If you have an amp with xlr in puts and a dual differential design using these inputs will give best sound IMO and experience.

Unlike some who think anything that needs warmed up is crap and i am sorry but valves need warmed up and run in as do speakers as do cables as does pretty much everything . And as i constantly ask for ,qualify what is said here on ZG so we can learn why you believe what you believe .With this info we might agree or not but at least we will know all about it.

D Louth
 
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HI Robbo i have done this my self in the past so unless you live near me which sadly you don't as i don't live on the uk mainland, it will be a bit hard to do it unless i move into your house for a week and we set up a strict listening criteria . If i did live near you i would be happy to do this .

Regards D Louth
 
Well I wasnt really being serious.

However, If you have been able to identify a cold player against a warmed up player under controlled double blind conditions, then I'll be more than happy accept that the effect is real.
 
Hi Robbo If i lived near Berkshire i would love to have done this . You could have come over to mine and vice a versa ,it would have been fun Oh well.

Regards D Louth
 
So any other suggestions - Ive heard a few good things now about the benchmark dac - anyone heard this or their pre amp?
 
D Louth 77 said:
Hi coops(Keith),how dare you level such an accusation at me . This has nothing to do with retailing/dealering unlike many who lurk on this forum . As i have stated before as a Zg member i am following no hidden agenda . The comments i make are down to me and no one or anything else. They are based on my experiences over the last 18 odd years and are clean . You want to disagree with me fine but how dare you make that kind of a statement.

The comments i have made in regard to Compact disc players goes for every single one ever made,every brand that i have heard or owned ,which is quite a lot. All improve with run in and sound gets better with being on . This varies a bit from model to model and technology used but it is universal with some needing more than others.

Keith all the players i own sound brilliant in different ways and i always make sure to do whatever is required to give them the best chance to work fully. Do you do that?
You don't think these things are important or worth looking at. Well okay thats what you think. Do you run in and properly set up the gear you sell ?

Talk about being arrogant, the gear you do/sell/represent/make double margin on, may be very good ,i have never heard any of it so i offer no comment on it. You have no idea what i do or don't do as i am not part of this forum to make money . What i do for a living or not is not part of my comments ,so don't ever say what i say is dealer bollocks . I am a free thinker and believe what i believe because it is what i have heard ,but unlike you who seems to have a closed mind ,i at least pride myself on having an open one and unlike many i will qualify what i say. I am also happy to admit when i might be wrong and on this issue i would state my life on it . I know what i have heard over the years ,and i am 100% certain. And if members want blow by blow disscriptions of how the sound improves i am quite happy to do so.

Joel in this case the sound from some players that are dual differential (ie the Wadia and Moon Andromeda ) true balanced sound better earlier on using their rca outputs rather than the balanced ones. The sound is over heavy and rich with a closed in sound . As they warm up this opens up and the thickness in the lower mid and bass becomes much more detailed,dynamic and fine detail shines through . The whole sound opens up like an audio version of a sun flower. When warm up is complete the balanced/xlr outputs will usually sound better than the rca outputs . If you have an amp with xlr in puts and a dual differential design using these inputs will give best sound IMO and experience.

Unlike coops who thinks anything that needs warmed up is crap and i am sorry but valves need warmed up and run in as do speakers as do cables as does pretty much everything . If you don't like digital fine but wind your neck in . And as i constantly ask for qualify what you say . You say i am talking bollocks what have i said exactly and why is it bollocks do tell !!!! ?

D Louth
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Are you saying that you are not the manager of one Irelands HiFi emporia,I suggest you come clean andtell everyone else who you are.
 
D Louth 77 said:
Okay Guys

Keith and class A, i am not talking a load of crap ! and i am sick of narrow minds and narrow attitudes . It is generally accepted wisdom that some CDP need to be left on to sound their best . The Wadia,Moon and Tda 1541 dac users being some of the others(this includes the AMR CDP).

With some players the improvement is small but worth having and with other the machines i have mentioned the improvement is more dramatic . Now if you cant accept this fine but stop being so aggressive about it ,as they say where i come from "Wind your Neck in." I know what i have heard/and others ,over the last 18 years of listening to many different makes of cdp,proper run in and warm up makes a difference. I wish it didn't what savings in electricity bills i would have made but the sound improvement is worth the cost. All my current CDP are always left on .

I throw down a challenge to anyone who reads this thread who does not leave their player on all the time to leave it on over the next week and post if you feel the sound has improved and if so buy how much and in what way. In some cases i suspect it will be only by a little in others cases by a lot especially if its a multibit player TDA1541 or a Moon or Wadia(which should be on for longer,but you will still hear a better sound. If you do leave it on for the month)

Class A have you ever owned a Wadia if not keep your ill-informed opinions to your self please. If you have experience outline it in detail please ,otherwise only comment on what you have experience of and don't be guilty of what you have accused me of ,I.E "Speaking crap" yourself. And as for this being a stupid theory no class A its a fact not a theory. I at least can qualify everything i say on this forum and i usually do,unlike others,who make sweeping statements and don't offer any experience or details to back up their so called truth. Come on guys start sharing what you know and how you know it,so we can understand how you came to your conclusions .

I agree with Keith(coops) that anyone interested in buying an expensive player should hear them in his or hers system but equally i should have thought (i do) that you should offer all your potential options the best possible circumstances to give their best and if that means 800 hours of run in or being fully warmed up(IMO and others at least a month with the likes of Wadias)what have you to loose to do this. If you aren't prepared to properly access products then frankly you are wasting your time and everyones else who reads this forums time IMO and coops i am not necessarily talking about you when i say that.

I accept Keith in the context of your system that you didn't like the AMR/or it was not compatible,but that does not mean it does not work well and brilliantly else where.

Increasingly Frustrated D Louth
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D Louth,

Im all up for CD players to be left on 24/7 which I also do BTW but what you had said that the Wadia will only sound great after 1 month ( 30 days ) is just BULL. If what you are saying is true, can you back it up with proof??? I found Wadia's sound their best after 24 Hrs being left on ( not new unit, new unit will need 200Hrs+ breaking in) and that applies to most players.

I DO OWN ONE OF THEIR LATEST PLAYER SO I'M QUALIFY TO MAKE COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR JUBJECT.

I think you are making a silly sweeping statement here.
 
banpe2006 said:
So any other suggestions - Ive heard a few good things now about the benchmark dac - anyone heard this or their pre amp?
Click to expand...

I had a DAC1 one a few years back.......... hated it
the P3a Pa1 & monolithic psu blew it away for only a couple of hundred quid extra,but thats me

my advise would be listen to the DAC1 before you buy it a very overated DAC IMHO,If you plan on spending 2K and are serious about DACs give Coops a call he has a few including various MSBs & Ack and he has listened too loads more and could poss give you a few other options too try. I dont care for the Ack but will give the MSB platinum a go in my own system If I can land a 2nd hand one.
take your time and get demoing ! above all let your OWN ears decide not Forum hype good luck.
 
Hi Class A

If you had said you owned a Wadia in your posting i would have commented differently ,so fare enough ,please accept that i am sorry if i was a little bit to strong. I am talking about the Wadias i have heard (302,861,861 se ) I have not heard the new ones so i can't comment on them. If this issue is resolved brilliant but if it takes 24 hours to sound its best then in away my point is still valid. Are you going to switch it on 24 hours before you listen ,no,you will leave it on. I was also not saying that a Wadia is poor until it has been on for a month just that it will reach its maximum performance which is not the same as saying it is poor until it has been on for a month .

Ya-boo i have a MSB Link Dac and a Power plant for it and guess what it sounds best when left on for a few hours too, is that Dealer Bollocks.(i don't know about the new MSB stuff)

I think its very interesting that Keith,who is a dealer/distributor can only defend his position by attacking me personally. Why do you think this is a load of dealer crap ,when you are one?

The single thing which frustrates me most about some who post on this forum is that they are not prepared to share their findings .How they arrived at their perfectly valid opinion. It would save a lot of hassle/and heat if people would qualify things first. Example if Class A said i have a Wadia ....... ,whatever model, and i find it sounds best after only 24 hours . No grief no over reaction. I would then have loved to discuss with him why older ones did and his new one didn't. I have mentioned this before but so far it has been ignored come on guys qualify your comments give us info,we all thrive on it . And remember not every one knows you or you history of posts. Do you expect us to read them all to find out why you say what you say? If so i think that is unreasonable.

Still Frustrated D Louth
 
D Louth , I have no position to defend, for years I was fed just that kind of nonsense by dealers, I couldn't concieve telling one of my customers that the sound of a piece of equipment will only improve if left switched on for a month!
 
My arguments sound better if I'm switched on. They then generally sound even better if I'm a bit more switched on.:D
 
D Louth 77 said:
Hi Class A

If you had said you owned a Wadia in your posting i would have commented differently ,so fare enough ,please accept that i am sorry if i was a little bit to strong. I am talking about the Wadias i have heard (302,861,861 se ) I have not heard the new ones so i can't comment on them. If this issue is resolved brilliant but if it takes 24 hours to sound its best then in away my point is still valid. Are you going to switch it on 24 hours before you listen ,no,you will leave it on. I was also not saying that a Wadia is poor until it has been on for a month just that it will reach its maximum performance which is not the same as saying it is poor until it has been on for a month .

Ya-boo i have a MSB Link Dac and a Power plant for it and guess what it sounds best when left on for a few hours too, is that Dealer Bollocks.(i don't know about the new MSB stuff)

I think its very interesting that Keith,who is a dealer/distributor can only defend his position by attacking me personally. Why do you think this is a load of dealer crap ,when you are one?

The single thing which frustrates me most about some who post on this forum is that they are not prepared to share their findings .How they arrived at their perfectly valid opinion. It would save a lot of hassle/and heat if people would qualify things first. Example if Class A said i have a Wadia ....... ,whatever model, and i find it sounds best after only 24 hours . No grief no over reaction. I would then have loved to discuss with him why older ones did and his new one didn't. I have mentioned this before but so far it has been ignored come on guys qualify your comments give us info,we all thrive on it . And remember not every one knows you or you history of posts. Do you expect us to read them all to find out why you say what you say? If so i think that is unreasonable.

Still Frustrated D Louth
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D Louth,

Point taken for the above.....we got our wires crossed. I own a Wadia 581-SE which BTW is a great sounding player and before that the Weiss combo. The weiss is great and in some ways better than the wadia yet the Wadia does something that the Weiss doesn't... the Wadia sounds very thin and abit edgy at top from cold and after left on for 24hrs or so, its a different animal. I do leave everything on 24/7 regardless which enable me to listen to music when ever and not needing to spin a disc or two before sitting down.
 
There surely must be something which is measurable if these pieces of equipment change so audibly the longer they are left on.

And if the Wadia bass is so "strong", does this not show up in a simple frequency response test? If not, why not?
 
Ive no idea about the frequency response test Dick. I posted here to ask if anyone had experience , or, useful information about the player, or indeed others in the price bracket. The point of the post seems to have been missed with a slanging match taking its place. I have no equipment to measure bass response, but was told (by the guy selling the 860) that the bass is a little too strong for some peoples tastes. It makes sense to ask - Hence the post. Any useful information ( D Louth was at least, attempting to be helpful in his observations. Whether others agree or not is in some ways what I was looking to gauge ie. a varied and honest appraisal before going any further), such as the experience of past owners / listeners, would be welcome. cheers
 

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