The sum total is that none of these tests have shown any evidence - and by the seem of it neither have yours so you invent post hoc justification. It could just as easily be that p=0.5! You dont know, thats the point! I am sure you know the tests but your statistics philosophy is suspect. Currently there is no evidence for these claims and a prize of $1M for someone who can. Which noone has claimed - and should be easy money if cable advocates are correct. There is however evidence against the assertion - as the Self summing amplifier shows, and no listener test so far disproves this assertion. If you can show it exists be my guest and I will be the first to lavish praise where it is due.
Weltanschaung and HiFi (warning, contentious and wordy)
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3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
Actually, to the degree the limited data accumulated allowed to conclusions to be drawn my key test suggests that people can hear a difference between steel cored RG-58 and RG-214/MIL with a reasonable degree of confidence. That said, despite having very similar capacitance the cables are rather different electrically and measurably so, with RG58 showing appreciable non-linearity, so the cables are clearly not electrically similar.
Nope, there is a price for demonstrating paranormal powers. This does not apply to hearing differences between electrically (materially) dissimilar cables, as clearly nothing paranormal is involved.
Note that I have agreed that electrically sufficiently identical cables will "sound the same". I guess we may disagree on what constitutes "sufficiently identical".
"The Self summing amplifier" as such shows nothing. You may argue that tests carried out using this show, or do not show certain effects (or absence thereoff), though the "summing amplifier" does not address the system context (eg. RFI ingress, other interactions....).
Ciao T
brizonbiovizier said:
Actually, to the degree the limited data accumulated allowed to conclusions to be drawn my key test suggests that people can hear a difference between steel cored RG-58 and RG-214/MIL with a reasonable degree of confidence. That said, despite having very similar capacitance the cables are rather different electrically and measurably so, with RG58 showing appreciable non-linearity, so the cables are clearly not electrically similar.
brizonbiovizier said:
Nope, there is a price for demonstrating paranormal powers. This does not apply to hearing differences between electrically (materially) dissimilar cables, as clearly nothing paranormal is involved.
Note that I have agreed that electrically sufficiently identical cables will "sound the same". I guess we may disagree on what constitutes "sufficiently identical".
brizonbiovizier said:
"The Self summing amplifier" as such shows nothing. You may argue that tests carried out using this show, or do not show certain effects (or absence thereoff), though the "summing amplifier" does not address the system context (eg. RFI ingress, other interactions....).
Ciao T
3DSonics
away working hard on "it"
Hi,
ANYTHING shows something. The question is what.
Well, I would class this with your Non-Believe in Cables as plainly wrong.
I have found only one "High End Audio" reference on Randi's website and this relates strictly to Shakti Stones and (Peter) Belt Devices and is found here:
http://www.randi.org/jr/080504string.html#8
Fallout from the observation that "Shakti Stones" actually contain items that act as EMI Shield/Suppressor (making Shakti Stones simply VERY EXPENSIVE and VERY BIG ferrites) resulted in a moderation of the challenge, IF such prensence would be prooven.
Given that NOTHING ELSE was heard from Randi on the Topic since we may assume that in fact such active ingrediences are present and hence Shakti Stones are no longer considered "paranormal" per se (I am certain Randi would have gleefully rubbed negative results of his X-Rays in and crowed about it extensively, as he is won't to do with other such stuff.
Randi's actual Challenge Document simply states:
"I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions"
The Challenge FAQ enlarges:
"The following things are paranormal by definition:
Dowsing. ESP. Precognition. Remote Viewing. Communicating with the Dead and/or "Channeling". Violations of Newton's Laws of Motion (Perpetual Motion Devices). Homeopathy. Chiropractic Healing (beyond back/joint problems). Faith Healing. Psychic Surgery. Astrology. Therapeutic Touch (aka "TT"). Qi Gong. Psychokinesis (aka "PK"). The Existence of Ghosts. Precognition & Prophecy. Levitation. Physiognomy. Psychometry. Pyramid Power. Reflexology. Acupuncture. Applied Kinesiology (aka "AK"). Clairvoyance. The Existence of Auras. Graphology. Numerology. Palmistry. Phrenology."
No mention of "High End Audio Claims" in any particular way.
It seems you are the one wearing the Emorers new cloth here.
Ciao T
brizonbiovizier said:
ANYTHING shows something. The question is what.
brizonbiovizier said:
Well, I would class this with your Non-Believe in Cables as plainly wrong.
I have found only one "High End Audio" reference on Randi's website and this relates strictly to Shakti Stones and (Peter) Belt Devices and is found here:
http://www.randi.org/jr/080504string.html#8
Fallout from the observation that "Shakti Stones" actually contain items that act as EMI Shield/Suppressor (making Shakti Stones simply VERY EXPENSIVE and VERY BIG ferrites) resulted in a moderation of the challenge, IF such prensence would be prooven.
Given that NOTHING ELSE was heard from Randi on the Topic since we may assume that in fact such active ingrediences are present and hence Shakti Stones are no longer considered "paranormal" per se (I am certain Randi would have gleefully rubbed negative results of his X-Rays in and crowed about it extensively, as he is won't to do with other such stuff.
Randi's actual Challenge Document simply states:
"I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions"
The Challenge FAQ enlarges:
"The following things are paranormal by definition:
Dowsing. ESP. Precognition. Remote Viewing. Communicating with the Dead and/or "Channeling". Violations of Newton's Laws of Motion (Perpetual Motion Devices). Homeopathy. Chiropractic Healing (beyond back/joint problems). Faith Healing. Psychic Surgery. Astrology. Therapeutic Touch (aka "TT"). Qi Gong. Psychokinesis (aka "PK"). The Existence of Ghosts. Precognition & Prophecy. Levitation. Physiognomy. Psychometry. Pyramid Power. Reflexology. Acupuncture. Applied Kinesiology (aka "AK"). Clairvoyance. The Existence of Auras. Graphology. Numerology. Palmistry. Phrenology."
No mention of "High End Audio Claims" in any particular way.
It seems you are the one wearing the Emorers new cloth here.
Ciao T
It shows the value and objective results of the summing amplifier approach.
I have no belief in cables at all - just utilitarian hypothesis based on experimental findings and theoretical understanding. If you give me evidence I will shift my position.
I read it in an interview somewhere
Didnt you know buddhas coat left half his back bare?
I have no belief in cables at all - just utilitarian hypothesis based on experimental findings and theoretical understanding. If you give me evidence I will shift my position.
I read it in an interview somewhere
Didnt you know buddhas coat left half his back bare?
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