What next? An upgrade question.....

[Seeker_UK]

As mentioned in a previous thread, I've recently upgraded my CD player to a Meridian 506.24 which, to my ears is pretty damn good and although not necessarily a step up, is a closer sound to wot I liek.

Currently, it's connected via a Monster cable (can't remember the model but it was about £100) to a (pre-TAG) Audiolab 8000a which in turn is connected to a pair of Neat Petite II / Gravitas. After speaking to Bob@Neat (a very helpful chap) these are connected in probably the best way with the current set-up - one speaker output driving the Petites and one driving the gravitas. Speaker cable is Audionote AN-D by the way...

Now, I'm sure that I can get a better sound from the Meridian and, although I like the bass extension I get from the gravitas / Petite combination, some tracks through the set-up seem to produce some pretty out of control bass when it goes too deep (and unfortunately, this counts for a huge chunk of my collection - a lot of the stuff I listen to has some very deep synthesised tones)

Thinking about it, one of the nicest sounds I heard was a pair very large Magneplanar being driven by some equally large valve monos. Surprisingly good bass extension I thought. Unfortunately, OIC Domestic Affairs has stated that anything bigger than the gravitas / petites are verboten and the amp(s) must fit on the HiFi rack (ie no wider than 19").

Now, I'm guessing that a better amp may put that control back into the system or perhaps bi/tri -amping might help.

I've always hankered for a valve amp and Bob@Neat advises that any >50W is suitable but to get that size of amp is (usually) damned expensive. Perhaps there are good solid state integrateds which get near that sort of sound?

Anyway I have plenty of options:

1 - Bi/Tri Amp by adding Audiolab 8000p / 8000ms as required.
2 - As 1 but use another brand of amp alongside the Audiolab (probably a bad idea).
2 - Add 2 power amps to the Audiolab using it as a pre-amp only.
3 - Ditch the Audiolab and buy a new amp.
4 - Ditch the Audiolab and Petites/Gravitas and go for a different combination.

Budget

If changing just the amp, £800-£1000 (would have to be pretty special to warrant £1000)

If changing both, £1400-£1500

Any ideas?

Cheers

 

[Neil]

OK. I'm not a fan of bi/tri amping to be honest. I've always found monoblocing to be preferable. Naim is perhaps the "honourable"(?) exception to this. When multi-amping I feel active speakers are the way to go (but that is probably a thread in its own right!). That said I would try bi-amping as in option 1. of your suggestions and let your ears decide if it's a significant improvement. My preference would be to try a meridian amp (500 series to match the CD player, I think you'll be v pleasantly surprised).
Re the valve thing. I'd say 25W + (not 50!!) - a good 6550 / KT 88 push pull amp would give you all you need. Something along the lines of the old WAD Kit 88 would be very fine indeed.
The deep bass thing. I think the out of control bit is perhaps the sub. I'd lean towards listening to eg some Dynaudio speakers - avoid the lower end tho'

 

[fatmarley]

If you want tight bass with real control of the low end, you can't beat sealed boxes. . . . But, most of them lack excitement and dynamics at low volume, because of the low sensitivity.

I'm using ported, Tannoy 10" DMT studio monitors at the moment and really like them although i can still hear the ports on the odd occasion

A more powerfull amp may help your situation but i doubt it would completley eliminate it.

 

[Jimbo]

Do you have wood floors, perhaps suspended? If so this could be the cause of your boom.
I put some Asda granite chopping boards under my speaker stands and they made a huge improvement. One under the Gravitas too should help. In fact later i bought another two and sandwiched some carpet underlay between which gave even more improvement to the bass. Got rid of the boom and funnily enough increased the bass performance to a more solid sound. This may be worth trying first before the expensive upgrade path.
Some one i know has Neat Mystiques and he couldnt believe the bass i was getting from my little standmounts.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Thanks for the answers so far.

Firstly, I have concrete floors - the house I used to live in to had floorboards and I used £2.50 paving slabs which worked very well.

The gravitas are sort of subs but they come in pairs for the Petites to sit on. They have two drivers, one facing out and one inside facing down - there is an option of putting foam bungs in the ports at the back but if I'm doing that, I may as well get a speaker with a more lean bass?

 

[DavidF]

Do you have wood floors, perhaps suspended? If so this could be the cause of your boom.
I put some Asda granite chopping boards under my speaker stands and they made a huge improvement. One under the Gravitas too should help. In fact later i bought another two and sandwiched some carpet underlay between which gave even more improvement to the bass. Got rid of the boom and funnily enough increased the bass performance to a more solid sound. This may be worth trying first before the expensive upgrade path.
Some one i know has Neat Mystiques and he couldnt believe the bass i was getting from my little standmounts.

Thank you.

There are many games you can play here.

ie using mass and isolation techniques.....

 

[YNMOAN]

My finger is pointing straight at the Audiolab - I well remember the 8000a. However, whatever you do, your system is not going to sound anything like Magneplanars and large valve amps - especially for £1500. To be honest I think you need to go to a dealers and get a better idea of exactly what it is you do want. Your main complaint seems to be lack of bass grip but this is not an area that valve amps (especially sub £1000) are all that strong at. The transistor route may well improve the bass but be too 'dry' for your tastes. Have you tried some proper experimentation with speaker positioning? This can make a huge difference to how a speaker couples to the room at low frequencies.

How about if you post a pic of your speakers in the room as they are now?

 

[Seeker_UK]

How about if you post a pic of your speakers in the room as they are now?

Will do it tomorrow after work

Although, if they are badly positioned, it may be a case of 'what speakers would go best there?' since they're in a room which is living room first, listening room second.

 

[DavidF]

Will do it tomorrow after work

Although, if they are badly positioned, it may be a case of 'what speakers would go best there?' since they're in a room which is living room first, listening room second.

No!

Has to be the other way round....

Listening room first.

Mines an acoustic research centre.

 

[Seeker_UK]

No!

Has to be the other way round....

Listening room first.

Mines an acoustic research centre.

I'm afraid OIC Domestic Affairs is quite clear on this. This is why I won't be buying any Magneplanars and/or large valve monoblocks.

[edit]

Pictures of placement as requested....

 

[Seeker_UK]

Tiny bump otherwise won't show as a new post.

 

[fatmarley]

The left speaker looks a little close to the side wall. Could you get them a little closer to the TV?
I'd also try the foam bungs in the ports. You'll get less bass but it should give you more control over the low frequencies. If they sound too bass light with the bungs in, you could try moving them closer to the back or side walls to compensate.

 

[YNMOAN]

Yup, the left hand one does look rather close to the wall and the close proximity of the shelves behind it wont be helping - could you move these?

Try experimenting with toe-in and sitting a bit closer to them.

 

[Jimbo]

Have you swapped the Gravitas's over so they dont fire into the wall, may help. Try something under them too as the granite slabs are only a tenner each. If all fails you may need room treatment or a Behringer DEQ.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Have you swapped the Gravitas's over so they dont fire into the wall, may help. Try something under them too as the granite slabs are only a tenner each. If all fails you may need room treatment or a Behringer DEQ.

Thanks for the reply but......

1 - the ports are at the back.

2 - The floor is concrete and the spikes are through the carpet to it.

3 - No room for the Behringer

I'm really seriously considering less beefy speakers.

Ruark Equinox perhaps?

 

[bottleneck]

Bob is wrong.



Bad Bob!



There are lots of valve amps available sub £1000 if that's what you want.

 

[DavidF]

I use a dyanvox valve amp ....not alittle hot rodded i might say...

I bought it 2nd hand for 200

I also use ruark sceptres and they do ok. (of course it depends on what you are used to(

Careful speaker /kit set up is the name of the game here......yes , i know its a contentious subject......

speaker positioning can make astonishing differences.

 

[D Louth 77]

Ruark Equinox are wonderful speakers IMHO but not on the end of an Audiolab amp. However they can be driven well by a 25 watt plus valve amp to great results. The Ruark's slightly dry balance makes them a good candidate for valves and they are fairly easy to drive. I bought a pair of Santos Rose wood ones a few years ago and even though I don't use them at present, I would not sell them.

Your room is a bit small and they may boom a bit. Swapping the subs so they fire into the middle is worth trying. Other option would be to pull the speakers forward a bit. Its amazing how much a few mm's can make to the sound never mind bigger changes in position. Make sure everything measures the same and your speakers are level and don't rock.

However it may be that the speakers are just too big for the room and generate to much bass. We have all had this problem from time to time.

Regards D Louth

 

[Nomoretweaks]

I would have ditched Audiolab. Definitely. There is a lot of better, not too expensive, reliable used amps on ebay which would bring much more fun to the music.

 

[Seeker_UK]

I would have ditched Audiolab. Definitely. There is a lot of better, not too expensive, reliable used amps on ebay which would bring much more fun to the music.

Such as?

There's a load to choose from