Where to put the money.

In my teenage years (I'm now 60) conventional wisdom seemed to be you should put a lot of money into the loudspeakers. The best to be heard at home was a live broadcast via FM radio in which no land lines were used. Microphone - radio links - receiver - amplifier speakers.

Then the Sondek hit us and the philosophy changed - rubbish in - rubbish out was the cry. Buy the best turntable, arm and cartridge, buy the best amp you can and put what's left to a small speaker.

The mechanical transducers were always and remain the weak points in the chain; but now there are only two - the microphone and the speaker. The home user has no choice over the mic, but has to trust that an accurate transducer was used with skill - the rest is digital transmission, and it's precise route is largely irrelevant. The electronics of DAC and amplifier is remarkably cheap, but the final transducer is of crucial importance.

Are we now back with the advice to spend as much as you can on the speakers and make do elsewhere?

(I clearly take no account of those who choose to stick with LPs - they still have to contend with the errors of cutting and pressing and LP and with the expense of a deck to get the information in the groove back into the wires.)

So, for a digital replay system - put the money in the speakers?

 

Yes

 

A short and unequivocal answer!

 

Well, speakers that don't cause too many problems n your room and amps to drive them properly, actives perhaps?
Keith.

 

I think 'rubbish in - rubbish out' still holds true - it's just plain logic.

But I think it's also true that different speakers (and their positioning and interaction with the room) make the most audible difference when compared with one another.

 

A very cheap cd/dvd player can give very acceptable results, differences in digital sources are really quite small, and diminishing returns quickly kicks in.
Keith.

 

What's a CD player? I stream.

Squeezebox > DAC(which doubles as preamp) > Amp > Speakers

Provided it's kept clean it doesn't matter how the bits get to the DAC.

Rubbish in rubbish out is much less of an issue when you are moving bits.

Active speakers make a lot of sense, but you have to hunt for them in a market wedded to old ways. Finding active speakers that don't turn the lounge into a disco ain't easy unless you spend lots.

 

What's a CD player? I stream.

Good for you so do I, Meridian have been making very fine ( non disco ) actives for thirty years.
Keith.

Just saw this , 'Provided it's kept clean it doesn't matter how the bits get to the DAC.'
I can't agree with this, design and implementation of every stage is important if you are really looking for the very best possible sound.

 

Well that's covered by "provided it's kept clean" isn't it?

Bitperfect is bitperfect.

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/

Once you in the analogue domain, that's a different issue.

 

You have to have bit perfect data I agree ,then there is the method you choose to transfer that data to the dac chip, ethernet, async firewire and async usb are technically best, then the design and implementation of the dac and finally the output stage.
Keith.

 

Agreed. Technically the best, but S/PDIF will do for me. Practically no difference. I ain't obsessive.

Isn't this a thread about speakers, not cables?

Speakers will make a bigger difference.

Bed time for me.

 

Not cables but methods of transferring data.

 

Room Acoustic treatment and speaker placement.

 

Yes I agree, along with the choice of speaker - these are where the cash should be diverted if running a digital system.

If analogue is still your primary source, there is no substitute for a high quality TT/arm/cartridge and those are never inexpensive as a package.

Going digital can be as easy as plugging something like the £130 MF V-Dac into the USB socket of your PC.
Possibly not the last word in quality but it doesn't get that much better, though you can certainly get 'different'.

 

Yes. The law of diminishing returns bites very fast, as has already been said by Keith and by Rob.

Using a streamer like the Apple Airport Express (£80) or a Squeezebox Classic (£170) you can get a bitperfect stream to the DAC of your choice. The Squeezebox costs more but will replace your FM Tuner giving you access to high quality internet radio streams from all over the world. The Radio 3 stream on my Squeezebox (with my DAC) is better than my Quad 77 FM Tuner.

So, bitperfect from a streamer by S/PDIF (Optical or phono lead) into a DAC.

Rob's suggested
v-Dac £130 - £140 is the best I see today




http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/V-Series/V-DAC/V-DAC.asp

Cambridge DACmagic £230



http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/set_territory.php?TID=1&Redirect=/summary.php?PID=320

Beresford 7520 ( £140+VAT) or Caiman (£200+VAT)



http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

TC-BMC2 (£200)



http://www.tcelectronic.com/bmc-2.asp

The Beresfords have four switchable inputs, a fixed line out and a variable line out controlled by an analogue volume control. Good 'phones amp. Will serve as "Pre-amp"

The TC BMC-2 has 3 (?) switchable inputs, nice volume control and a good 'phones amp. Balanced outputs. Will serve as "Pre-amp"

The other two have more limited facilities.

I use a Beresford Caiman for its sound, its flexibility and because it looks the part in the lounge.

It has a USB input - running Foobar in WASAPI mode on a Windows 7 laptop I can deliver a bitperfect signal to the Beresford, but I usually work through the Squeezebox for convenience - and it's still bitperfect.

So for c£200 you can get an extremely competent DAC and, provided you need no analogue inputs, a Pre-amp as well.

That leaves a lot of extra cash for amp and speakers or active speakers.

Spend more if you like, but you will be paying for over engineered products that will sound very little better, if at all.

Put the money in the transducer!

Well, that's what I think.

 

Well said Brian.

That BMC-2 reminds me of old 1970s top loading cassette decks.

 

It would work quite well in a lounge on a table to the right or left of the listening chair - single arm out to adjust analogue volume.

You can, of course, use the digital volume control on the Squeezebox remote - provided output/input sensitivities are well matched and you don't need too much digital attenuation.