Which amp is best??

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FreddytheEagle

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Hi all, My first post...

Having been bitten quite ferociously with the upgrade bug recently following a gap of a good few years, I am now in the pursuit of what is probably going to be the last cog in the current session. To clarify, things have evolved thus:-

Out with an Arcam CD92 cdp, in with a Bel Canto CD1

Out with Monitor Audio GR20 speakers, in with B&W 803S's

Out with standard power leads, in with bespoke silver alloy leads + silver plated dist board, and solid silver interconnect by 'The Missing Link'

Improvements overall are already pretty astounding, but I reckon the new kit wont work to it's full potential without thinking about new amplification. Currently I am solid state so to speak, using Arcam FMJ A32 Int + P35 bi-amping the B&W's.

Having done lot's of reading/searching/cogitating etc there is of course an immense amount of options to choose from. A few s/s power amps that seem interesting are below…

Gamut D200 Mk3
Musical Fidelity KW550 (is this amount of power really necessary? -630 WPC)
Ayre V5xe / K5xe
Bel Canto e.One Pre3 / 2 x REF1000's

...and valve based

Art Audio Jota or Argento
David Berning ZH-270 (is there anyone in the UK with a s/h one?)
or something more affordable, say by, ahem, the 'Affordable Valve Company' for example.

In terms of 'preamp' I really only need a very simple volume control + one input, (passive?,). I can't see that changing in the near future as I don't anticipate adding any other source components to the Bel Canto. Surely there is a market for this sort of thing, but I don't see much evidence having googled every permutation I can think of. Would love to hear if anyone has found anything along these lines. MF Audio's preamp looks intriguing although it does have more inputs than I need.

http://www.mfaudio.co.uk/passive_pre.htm

One thing that confuses me is published specs. More to the point watts per channel. I really don't understand how certain solid state manufacturers swear only power upwards of 250 WPC will provide the desired results with relatively sensitive speakers - Musical Fidelity stand up please (my B&W's are rated at 90dB/8 Ohm, 3 Ohm min), whereas valve based units are commonly as low as 15 WPC yet can sound wonderful. Someone, please help! Surely a watt is a watt is a watt.

Budget wise it'll be about £5K GBP, for both power and if necessary pre, or even integrated.

Music wise, one day it's Beethovens 9th, the next Bob Marley, the next some downtempo electronica, after that maybe Metallica. Everything to be honest.

Room size is smallish - 3.8 x 4.8m x 2.9m and i'm not looking to blow the roof off volume wise.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Would be very grateful to have some advice on the above.
 
experience with a few pairs of B&W's suggests they like power..

Berning is awesome and you should just get one if you can..

On budget, why not a muscle amp - like a Vincent or similar.

Too Many options to list.
 
Shameless plug, but I used my ASR emitter II with my B&W 800d's and it was a superb combination, I am only selling because of a change in circumstance, the ASR is a super amp , very quiet ( battery input ) with immense resolution.
I just wanted to add that my B&W's although nominally a benign load realy needed a lot of courrent to really drive them,Keith.
 
Re: the Berning. I've not heard one, but everything I can find out there seems to indicate a consensus of universal approval.

Contacted Allan @ Berning's in the states, and i'm on the list as at were for any s/h ones that come up as they have stopped manufacturing the ZH-270 to concentrate their efforts on some very special monoblocks, which I assume will have equally very special price tags. So that leaves me with the interim...

hence my hunt for an amp or amps to upgarde the FMJ's I'm currently running, which to be fair, are pretty excellent at their price point, but I reackon are the weakest link in my chain.

Googled the ASR's and I must say they look quite tasty. Bit dear though.

Best I've heard are Tom Evans's Linear A / Vibe / Pulse combo recently. Astonishing detail retrieval with 'that' sound I've never found with solid state. Only problem £9,600 all in.
 
Freddy,

Welcome to the forum.

If you like the sound of the TEAD combination then you will undoubtedly enjoy the Berning. I actually currently run the TEAD Vibe Pulse 2 into a pair of ZH270's. I don't crave an upgrade.

The only issue I would have might be compatibility with the B&W. I've never tried it and I know the latest 800 series are easier to drive, but the Berning has a relatively high output impedence and might react unpredicably with something with a very low impedence. Having said that, I've had it sounding outrageous driving nominally 4 ohm Proacs ( D100/D80) and I know Sonus Faber use one in their factory so it shouldn't be an issue. The TEAD Linear A is less powerfull sounding but shares the tonal and natural presentation of the Berning, along with the total lack of glare. Both sound simply "right" to my ears, and are utterly involving in the long term.

There's no point in adding a passive pre to the Berning, sorry Baudrillard :(, it will be a downgrade in my experience. Indeed the sound without the TEAD is every bit as involving, especially with the Gold point stepped attenuator. I need the pre as I run two ZH270's actively.

But I like your two choices of amps! The rest really sound very different to my ears.
 
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David Hi do you have your Berning yet? Very best,Keith.
btw my ASR Emitter II is not yet a year old, it is he top spec model, and I need to sell, do you think 70 watts wolud be enough for the 803's?
 
coops said:
Shameless plug, but I used my ASR emitter II with my B&W 800d's and it was a superb combination, I am only selling because of a change in circumstance, the ASR is a super amp , very quiet ( battery input ) with immense resolution.
Click to expand...

Keith,

Weren't you selling because you discovered valves only after you bought the ASR?
 
I'd go for the MF-Audio passive TVC pre-amp, it is one of the very best you will find IMO. Buy buy buy!

Amps... hmm, Bryston make nice sounding and beefy amps but I don't know how they mate to B&W.
 
having heard the bel canto's and owned one of the new e.one based amps, i can say that the pre3 and ref1000's would mate very well with B&W

they have a fluid richness to them that would suit the occasionally bright nature of the B&W designs. They are also tremendously powerfull, and will of course work wonders with your BC cd player.
 
Just looking at your request, One of the best combinations is the Bel Canto Ref 1000's and the Music First TVC a very good combination. I sell both and use this combo most of the time. Give music first a call and ask their opinion.
 
Personally I would say you really have to listen to some amps as there are very varied styles of presentation available and you need to find something that works with the kind of music you listen to, your personal tastes and the other equipment you have.

Having said all that I've heard Linn electronics driving the B&W 800 series speakers and making some really good music. I'd also listen to Phonosophie amps too if you like a real live, punchy sound.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the info all. It's always interesting to hear other' opinions of shortlisted possibilities and other options, prior to jumping into demoing.

Speaking of demo's, spent the best part of yesterday afternoon with Kevin Scott @ Definitive Audio. Order of the day was Art Audio's 16wpc parallel single ended 300B jobby called the Argento (£8 or £9K), coupled with Lving voice OBX-RW (£7K), and Opus 21 cdp (£2.95K). Magnificant package overall, and the amp sounded way more powerful than the spec suggests. But specs aside, what got me was the texture, shape and contrast of the music. Mesmerising. Not easy though to form an opinion on an individual item of kit outside of the context of my own system/room. Worth mentioning Kevin's a top bloke too. Very infectious enthusiasm for not just the kit but the numerous cd's we got through. I'd recommend a visit if anyone's in the market for something new.

Re: the Berning (again), I'm burning to hear one. pun intended.
 
Tenson said:
I'd go for the MF-Audio passive TVC pre-amp, it is one of the very best you will find IMO. Buy buy buy!

Amps... hmm, Bryston make nice sounding and beefy amps but I don't know how they mate to B&W.
Click to expand...

HI TENSON, I AGREE WITH YOU, i am back today from a lovelly 3 week break, missed all of you guys, nando.
 
Just got a Jungson JA1 and JA99C pre/power combo....SUPERB....
drives my Apogee's really well... just one thing... it gets VERY HOT. Very, very hot and then some... if you trawl around you can pick up thse for under £600.... with winter around the corner it can multitask too..
 
FreddytheEagle said:
Thanks for the info all. It's always interesting to hear other' opinions of shortlisted possibilities and other options, prior to jumping into demoing.

Speaking of demo's, spent the best part of yesterday afternoon with Kevin Scott @ Definitive Audio. Order of the day was Art Audio's 16wpc parallel single ended 300B jobby called the Argento (£8 or £9K), coupled with Lving voice OBX-RW (£7K), and Opus 21 cdp (£2.95K). Magnificant package overall, and the amp sounded way more powerful than the spec suggests. But specs aside, what got me was the texture, shape and contrast of the music. Mesmerising. Not easy though to form an opinion on an individual item of kit outside of the context of my own system/room. Worth mentioning Kevin's a top bloke too. Very infectious enthusiasm for not just the kit but the numerous cd's we got through. I'd recommend a visit if anyone's in the market for something new.

Re: the Berning (again), I'm burning to hear one. pun intended.
Click to expand...

Freddy, I think you are on the right track here. You wont go far wrong with Kevins stuff or the ZH270.

There are a couple of us on this thread who own ZH270s, but we are down south.
 
FreddytheEagle said:
...spent the best part of yesterday afternoon with Kevin Scott @ Definitive Audio.
Click to expand...

If my experience is anything to go by, you'd do well to be guided by Kevin. FWIW, I had (amongst other things over the years) an Art Audio Quintet from Definitive. It sounded stunning playing Chopin Nocturnes - I've never heard piano sound that good - weight, warmth, delicacy, the decay of notes, it was all there. Wonderful stuff. But it lacked the oomph for Motorhead and AC/DC. Not good. So, I asked Kevin's advice. He suggested adding a Border Patrol power supply. Did it work? Oh yeah.....:punk:
 
I am looking forward to hearing a berning, but I am not sure that 70 watts will be enough, for the B&W's, as Mike says there is a difference between nominal sensitivity and efficiency, I found my 800's needed a lot of current, a 150 Dynavector and a 350 watt pass labs couldn't provide enough juice, the 803's may be easier to drive? Keith.
 

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