Will the real D Louth stand up.

[D Louth 77]

Hi Guys and Gals

Well,well what a nice little storm has been generated by my thread about CD player warm up and my attempts to help another poster on his Wadia 860 problem. Unfortunately in order to get at me some private information has been revealed .

Yes i am involved in the Audio Trade ,but as i joined ZG for fun and not profit (and i am most certainly not knocking anyone who wants to do that or advertise their trade,RETAIL,DISTRIBUTION or MANUFACTURING business on ZG). I have no hidden agendas,when i post here or start a thread it is solely for a bit of fun and to help out and is as a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL.
I have never mentioned the business i am involved in ,nor have i tried to sell anything to anyone,either on the forum or via a private message and i must add that i do not intend starting to do so.
Unlike many in the TRADE who would have you believe they know everything (and many know next to nothing) ,i am very much on a journey and i am constantly learning new things. Unlike some i do not have the answer to everything and i am very careful (i hope) and considered in what i state in private ,on this forum and else where. I have ,an open mind about most things and will only ever dig my heels in on an issue when ,MY EXPERIENCE suggests that a phenomena has occurred many times to me and others . I am not a technician and frankly when i was young did take a slightly unhealthy interest in specs etc ,as i have got older all i really care about is how an item sounds ,both individually and as part of a system. Does that make me subjectavist ,then YES it does . Do i think measurements are important yes,but not a lot to me . MEASUREMENTS ALONE DO NOT TELL A WHOLE STORY. I am happy for those who think it does but i must and will disagree with you.

I think it is very sad that in order to bully me/get at me ,private info was revealed in such away . It is also interesting that this info was known for a number of weeks before being revealed in the form of a personal attack. Obviously this will be justified in some way (greater interest) but if it was such an important issue then why not OUT ME right away,i will leave you the reader to decide about this.

Should i reveal exactly who i am ? Sorry NO i will not. All the members of this forum choose to be who they want when they join. They pick a name or an Avatar or a signature quote etc and some use their real name and details. Some have chips on their shoulders, some have a mission to spread the HI-FI Gospel as they believe it to be . They may be right or wrong,or just maybe the facts they put forth as truth ,are only of value in their listening room their system or their ability to hear or not. I have no issue with this ,their is plenty of room for all but it is a pity when debate becomes personal attack something it should never do. I HAVE NO AGENDA,HIDDEN OR OTHERWISE,but i will offer advice and comment when i can ,if i have the knowledge or experience and i will ALWAYS TRY TO QUALIFY WHAT I SAY ,SOMETHING A LOT ON FORUM'S DON,T DO. A lot of misunderstanding can be avoided if rather than just stating a fact/opinion you also tell us how you arrived at that,share your experience please . We can all look at it and see(being in possession of all the facts),if we agree or not . This is healthy for good debate.

If i ever try to sell on this Forum then and only then will i reveal who i am ,until then i choose not to just like the rest of you who value your PRIVACY.

If there is fault then it is with ZG who offer no guidelines about stating if you are in the Trade .Maybe they should but when i joined they did not ,so in this respect i have also done nothing wrong by wanting to remain private . Maybe policy should be changed (i am not necessarily in favour of this)and then every thing may become clear. I for one will judge on words not what some one does for a living.

For those who thought they might bully me away for what ever reason and i must say i don't know why ,i will not be going away .

For those who have been supportive i offer my thanks and for any whos comments i have made have found them helpful or just interesting i hope ,the fact i am in the trade will not detract from them . They were all thoughtful and carefully considered and contained no commercial bias.

Can what i say be exempt from professional experience and knowledge?I have to say no,but nearly all of what i have said so far is based on what i have experienced at home in my system .I will share anything else i think if i can qualify it and only if i can and i will explain as best i can. There will be no commercial bias.

Once again i have no hidden agenda, i am not here on this forum to engage in commerce ,this for me is about a bit of fun and possibly friendship . If you consider me to be the enemy then i am sorry you feel that way. Judge me on my words no more and no less and if i have been hard or rude in the past i hope and i think i have done this ,i have said sorry and explained my self.

If you find any value in what i say ,great, if not and you want to debate with me then thats great too ,but please share in detail why. This is a bug with me and i will be challenging posters if they don't explain there position and how they got there.We may still disagree and thats great but at least there will be no doubt or confusion as to why a conclusion was reached.

Regards D Louth.

 

[hifi addict]

Well said,

I must say I have enjoyed your comments and seeing the replies most of the other ZG's have as well.

other then the infamous "keep it on for a month" thread you seem to be very informative and level headed.

Keep posting

 

[Samantha]

D - I haven't read the stuff you are refering to (except for my 'homework') ...... but I think it is a shame if bully-tactics are being used.
Everyone (irrespective of vocation) is entitled to an opinion. Obviously discussion is far better if there are some opposing opinions as if we all agree, there is nothing to discuss, no alternative viewpoints and no-one learns anything.
I also feel that anything you gain through experience is the best learned knowledge and IMO it matters not whether it was experienced via your personal journey or through your professional - if you have experience, it is still your personal experience either way. If you make a comment on something that you only heard for 20mins, then so long as it is clear that it was a short demo rather than ownership experience, I really don't see an issue.
I should perhaps refrain from head-shaking etc as I have not read what has led to this thread, but I value your contributions and do hope that you continue to contribute and share your views.

We should all be able to state opinions and debate different views without people making personal attacks etc. IMO

 

[RDD]

Don't let them get to you, forums are and always will be clicky - if they make it personal for expressing an opinion or view that differs to theirs all you can do is feel sorry for them....

I tend to find the trick to long term forum happiness is to not have an opinion, or end every statement with "IMHO" - sad but that's the way you have to play it, unless you like arguing all the time

 

[D Louth 77]

HI HI-FI addict

I stand on that point in regard to Wadia 302,various 861 versions and the Moon Super Nova and Andromeda . I have heard it as have others . In the original posting i did not claim this was with all cd players only these . So INFAMOUS or not there you have it. Thank you for your kind words .

Hi Samantha and RDD Thank you very much ,i will be going no where . RDD yes i realized i was leaving my head above the wall a bit but i felt strongly and was sure of my thoughts on warm up(see above for items in question). As to IMHO or IMO, i have used these as it seemed to be what you do on forums . This is the first Forum i have been on so far ,and it has mostly been good ,bar recently but i will be staying. Thanks for the advice.

Thank you for the support

Regards D Louth.

 

[hifi addict]

It's only infamous with regard the uproar it caused.

As some one in the trade the use of forums is quite restrained and boring as any comments or observations are mostly construed as dealer hype trying to sell their latest product.

 

[Corruption]

From Dictionary.com:

Forum; A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.

I haven't seen anyone abusing this notion on here yet, so by all means carry on...

 

[D Louth 77]

Hi HI-FI Addict

Which i have stated i will not be doing,well if i have made this more fun for every one brilliant but i must say a bit less for me .
However i hope that i will always keep things interesting and not worry about being to restrained but always as fair and accurate as i can be .

Thanks

Regards D Louth

 

[Dev]

Should i reveal exactly who i am ?

...

If there is fault then it is with ZG who offer no guidelines about stating if you are in the Trade .Regards D Louth.

I accept that you have not tried to sell anything on this forum, but we do ask all members who are in the HiFi trade to identify themselves, so that their views can be taken in perspective. I thought the AUP mentions this but I've just checked and unfortunately I was wrong.

I think being upfront from the start about being in the trade makes for better harmony in the forum than being found out later (whatever the intentions).

 

[RDD]

As to IMHO or IMO, i have used these as it seemed to be what you do on forums . This is the first Forum i have been on so far ,and it has mostly been good ,bar recently but i will be staying. Thanks for the advice.

Thank you for the support

Regards D Louth.

I may have said that wrong, I meant it was a good think to use IMHO or IMO, they're general "get out of jail free" cards to help people understand you're not stating fact, just an opinion - of course you will always get those who still ignore it just to pick a fight....this is in fact one of the better forums for that, certain others I won't mention will go off at the slightest thing

Have fun and I'm glad you're sticking around!

 

[hifi addict]

Hi HI-FI Addict

Which i have stated i will not be doing,well if i have made this more fun for every one brilliant but i must say a bit less for me .
However i hope that i will always keep things interesting and not worry about being to restrained but always as fair and accurate as i can be .

Thanks

Regards D Louth

Good now get posting :SWMBO:

 

[The Devil]

Well, you seem mildly deranged & frothy, which I guess are positive attributes in hi-fi dealer land.

 

[D Louth 77]

Hi DEV

Fair comment ,but as this isn't for commerce i will keep my privacy and as i was new to any Forum or the idea of being in one i hope you can forgive my ignorance i did not think this would be a huge issue ,how wrong can one be .

Sorry

Regards D Louth

 

[monya]

Am I missing something here? An opinion is an opinion, irrespective of who makes it, dealer or not.What's the problem? From my perspective the advantages of being a dealer/ex/whatever are that opinions carry extra weight when experience lies behind them.

 

[D Louth 77]

Hi monya

Thank you for your support. Does the opinion of some one in the trade have more weight than some one who isn't ? Excellent question. It will depend on a lot of things ,the level and quality of experience and how un-biased it is . I suppose the fear is if it comes from some one in the trade it has a commercial agenda and is thus tainted by that . However if it comes from some one who isn't in the trade it can also have an agenda behind it.

It is true that being in the trade means you are exposed to a lot more things and situations than a civilian and thus you can build up a broader knowledge base but it is still important to retain an open mind. Just because x or y worked in z's room it may not in L's room or with a particular system or the person listening may have a different approach or can't hear. Yes experience will guide you in what you say and suggest ,but even some one in the trade can get it wrong whether they admit that or not is another issue(they should always be honest). Does this make a civilian opinion less valid ,i would have to say no. There are many gifted individuals out there who can put the staff of a lot of Audio business to shame (they have chosen a different form of work) I think at the end of the day it is whether you allow your passion for the Audio World to be guided by that or just the money and how honest you are with yourself and others and how open your mind is to possibilities.

Bottom line never accept ,without trying it yourself and if you agree then brilliant and if not be prepared to explain why and we can all learn from the discussion that follows . The greatest barrier that stands between us is that no one can inhabit any one else's head and hear what they hear or gain as complete an insight as they have but we can all try to learn from each other and see if it works in your/our application.

Regards D Louth

 

[lbr]

Am I missing something here? An opinion is an opinion, irrespective of who makes it, dealer or not.What's the problem?

I can't agree with that entirely. I would give very different weight to a glowing review of, for instance, a new CD player if that review were given by the manufacturer, distributor or retailer of that equipment as against a review from a happy customer. I think the point is that those who make a living in the trade obviously have a vested interest in at least some aspects of the hobby. This is irrespective of their intentions or motivations.

I completely support D Louth's right to privacy, but I am not at all surprised that the lack of transparency has caused issues here.

 

[Purite Audio]

Exactly.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Am I missing something here? An opinion is an opinion, irrespective of who makes it, dealer or not.What's the problem?

I can't agree with that entirely. I would give very different weight to a glowing review of, for instance, a new CD player if that review were given by the manufacturer, distributor or retailer of that equipment as against a review from a happy customer. I think the point is that those who make a living in the trade obviously have a vested interest in at least some aspects of the hobby. This is irrespective of their intentions or motivations.

I completely support D Louth's right to privacy, but I am not at all surprised that the lack of transparency has caused issues here.

I agree. From a personal POV i'd be more likely to trust the opinion of someone who didn't have a vested interest. I've heard some right old cobblers from dealers in the past. YMMV of course.

 

[Purite Audio]

Perhaps a thread, nominating the worst of dealers 'cobblers' might be fun!
I will start , ' I expect you can hear the extra air around the instruments ' I couldn't!

 

[bottleneck]

D Louth, I would put something in your signature if I were you - it doesn't have to be specific - for example

" I make and sell valve amplifiers " or

" I own a hifi shop. Our major brands are Linn, Naim, Rega and Rotel ".

I think that smacks of happy compromise.

All IMHO.