Best Phono Stage within 2000 €

[Arlequen]

Hello Guys,

I'm thinking to buy a MC cartridge (low output like AT33PTG just for example) but my Grado PH1 Phono Stage doesn't have any other setup apart the fixed 47kohm for Grado cartridges .. so I need to buy another Phono Stage
I don't want to spend more than 2000 €
I read good things about Acoustech PH1P (1500 $USD retail) and about PS Audio GCPH l-1 (Underwood mod.) , Art Audio Vinyl One , Sutherland PHD (2000 $ on used US market) .. etc...
Another good suggestion I received from many Vinyl Lovers is about the Whest PS.30R
Other ideas about tube or SS good Phono Stages?
Preowned are welcomed .. less money for best value/quality

What's the best choice for you?

Thanks in advance for your Suggestions/Opinions

Cheers from Italy

 

[Purite Audio]

Allnic 1200 is a suprb little valve phono stage about $1600, but like everything in audio your ears your system , you might well prefer a solid state phono, listen to as many as you can, Keith.

 

[Arlequen]

Hi Coops,

Thanks for your suggestion
I don't know Allnic production , I think it isn't imported in Italy so I won't be able to test here
Btw it's a brand name I read often on Hi-Fi forums and it's claimed to be one of the best tube amplification available

 

[robM]

Hi Arlequen

I use a Whest PS.30R (£1600) in one system and their new MC REF in another. The PS.30R is excellent and the best solid state I have heard. The reviews have pretty much said the same. It's totally flexible unlike some, sounds so 'right' and can be used with any cartridge. I use mine with an Ortofon PW (Windfeld), Walker Audio Proscenium turntable and to be honest I haven't heard a stage as good as this for this sort of money. The Allnic is good if you like tubes BUT is too limited when it comes to gain selection. Also, I find with many tube phonostages, low output MCs just don't work because the noise level from the stage is too high.....UNLESS you use super efficient horn loudspeakers.

The only other unit I know of in this price range is the Ayre P5x. which I had a play with a while back. Yes it's a good one but sounded a bit too USA...if you know what I mean.

 

[Arlequen]

Yes it's a good one but sounded a bit too USA...if you know what I mean.

Thank RobM for your very helpful opinion
Unfortunately I know very well what does USA sound mean ..
I have had Harbeth C7ESII for some years and I traded for Thiel 2.4 .. frankly a good loudspeaker with super soundstage but I totally missed the magical midrange I was use to have by my Harbeths
Now I'm thinking to sell the Thiels and to buy the Harbeth Super HL5 .. but by the moment I want to close the circle buying a good phono stage .. later I 'll think to change speakers.
Your good point of view about Whest PS30R 'll be added to some as good as your I have received searching for this product.

 

[Johnj]

The Whest PS30R is pretty special and if you can afford the PS30DT even better, both will give you a lot of flexiabilty. If you want to spend a bit less then the world design phono stage is pretty good
Main thing is trust your ears and take u time to make the right choice so many choices in this price range

 

[FrankDeckard]

On the solid state end...the Audiomat is really good. I regret selling the original Audiomat Vinyl 1 as it worked amazingly well with low output Benz carts. I'll have to suffer with my two input Art Audio Vinyl One.

 

[robM]

A friend had the AA vinyl one....very limited in what cartridges you can use unless you specify from the start what cartridge you have, and if you change it (like he did) it wasn't compatible. Apart from that, I thought is was good considering it was full of glass

 

[lbr]

If you can, try an get a listen of the Ayre p5xe - a very capable stage with good functionality to boot

 

[robM]

Yes.. I think as solid states go, The Ayre P5xe and the Whest PS.30R or 30RDT. They are all very capable and offer great flexibility...and are around the same price point.

 

[hifi addict]

There is always the bel canto Phono stage very good phonostage and under represented.

 

[Arlequen]

Thanks Guys .. you have been very helpful

I think I 'll follow John suggestion and I 'll try the British Whest Audio PS30R .. when I asked about this unknown , for me , phono stage .. almost everywhere all confirmed me about the good quality of this brand and this phono board

 

[robM]

Arlequen - you really can't go wrong with this one. It's excellent and not because I own 2 versions of it now as well as the big MC REF V but because I, like John have compared it to others. I made the mistake of buying mine in Germany, I heard it in Germany against a Klyne, Burmester and an Allnic (sorry coops), and the 30R was so much better than all of them, I ended up 'having' to buy it there because I was so taken aback.

Obviously it's cheaper here in the UK, no thanks to the dropping price of sterling...

 

[Purite Audio]

I have had the 30 here and while it was better than the 2o Ifound it a little thin and harsh in comparison to the Allnic, but everyone's taste is different and some systems may need a bit of 'edge' I would try and listen to a many as possible, Rob is the ref any better than the 30?

 

[hifi addict]

another phonostage that I have heard and liked was the Anatek MC1. They are bringing out a biggerphonostage which is supposed to be even better.

 

[robM]

I think if you like valve 'bloom' then solid state speed maybe not quite your taste - it's true.

The REF is a completely different beast. The circuitry is NOTHING like the PS.30R and comes in 2 complete mono boxes.
The circuit boards are about 1ft square per channel! It's MC only, from 55dB. It also has switchable load and capacitance from the base.


As for the audio...WOW. It sounds ...no it doesn't sound at all. It plays vinyl like nothing else I have heard. I have quite a large collection that I have purchased over the past 30 or so years and everything sounds like I've never heard it before. All intruments sound alive and real. The soundstage doesn't sound like a soundstage in the conventional sense but more like the event 'area' where the musicians are playing. Kick drums eminate from a totally fixed position in the area that you want to go out and touch the thing. The sound from the MC REF is more tactile than just sound. I am or was not a keen vocal lover BUT now with this, it's changed my perspective. Vocals sound so lifelike is scary.

I'm using it at the moment with a VPI HRX/Rim Kuzma Air line, ZYX 4D (soon to change to a Windfeld).

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting another one - it's that good.

 

[Arlequen]

I'm using it at the moment with a VPI HRX/Rim Kuzma Air line, ZYX 4D (soon to change to a Windfeld).

Thanks RobM for your opinion
I'm using a TW Acustic Raven One turntable with a Michell Tecnoarm and a Grado Statement Master 0.4mv cartridge

 

[robM]

The Raven One is a great table. I first heard the PS.30R with a Raven AC/ 12" Ortofon tonearm and an Ortofon Vienna (German spec cartridge). Both the Ravens are great and worthy of a great stage.

I don't know the Statement Master.... what is it like? Is it low output moving iron?

 

[Arlequen]

I don't know the Statement Master.... what is it like? Is it low output moving iron?

Yes it's a kinda 0.5mv Moving Iron

The Statement Master models use a five piece OTL cantilever technology achieving an additional 5% tip mass reduction over the Platinum and Sonata models. The coils are wound with ultra-high purity long crystal (UHPLC) oxygen free copper wire. The Master model is mounted with Grado's specially designed nude elliptical diamond, and the Reference model uses Grado's true ellipsoid design diamond.

THE STATEMENT SERIES
OF CARTRIDGES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would be impossible to describe the Grado Statement series without first discussing the virtues and shortcomings of the moving coil cartridge design. The Statement series is a hybrid, which incorporates the best aspects of the moving coil pickup with the best aspects of the Grado flux-bridger design.
The mechanical generator system of the moving coil cartridge has its limitations. The copper wire wound on the heavy iron armature creates a large torsional mass, resulting in the generator motion disturbing the stylus and groove contact accuracy. This is heard as the characteristic moving coil sound, which is hard and edgy. It is quite possible to selectively alter this resonant color to "enhance" the sound, but no matter what, it is still distortion.

The outstanding quality of the moving coil cartridge is not the moving coil principle but the very low DC resistance and inductance. When the electrical impedance of a cartridge rises within the frequency response of the hearing range, the preamplifier generates audible distortion. This occurs because the preamplifier is valiantly trying to match the varying impedance and not quite succeeding.

Due to its low DC resistance, the moving coil cartridge presents a constant electrical impedance to the preamplifier at all frequencies, this results in a very low electrical distortion. This is the beauty of the moving coil: the constant electrical impedance makes the cartridge sound good despite the limited quality of the mechanical system.

The distortion that is caused by a slight rising impedance in the Grado cartridges is more than offset by their superb mechanical system. Unlike other moving iron cartridges that have one random distorted magnetic gap, all Grado cartridges have four separate magnetic gaps, each gap having exactly the same pure configuration as the gap in a moving coil cartridge.

In Grado cartridges a cantilever positioned in the longitudinal center between the four gaps carries a piece of very sophisticated iron (with absolutely no residual buildup properties). The swinging cantilever moves the iron into the magnetic gap, shunting the gap and increasing the amount of magnetic flux within the gap. The iron, acting as a fluxbridger, leaves the flux path in the gap undistorted. The result is very low playback distortion.

In the moving coil cartridge design, the tilting motion of the iron armature causes it to act as a flux relay device, thereby creating a large amount of flux path distortion. The end result is a "spitty" sound.

Due to the extremely high power factor in the Grado fluxbridger design, it is possible to design a new series of cartridges with a constant electrical impedance exactly like that of a moving coil.

The torsional mass characteristics of the Grado cartridges have always been superior to that of the moving coils. The frequency of the torsional resonance in a moving coil usually occurs between 6-10 kHz, depending upon the quality of the particular cartridge. The higher the moving coil output, the more irritating the torsional distortion.

The torsional resonance of the new "hybrid" (the best part of the moving coil concept and the best of Grado's design) occurs at approximately 30 kHz, well beyond audibility. One must realize that the more torsional resonance that can be heard, the more colored and distorted the sound becomes.

Grado is introducing four new models of phono cartridges. These new models will be an expansion of the Statement Series. They will duplicate the Reference Series in model names, i.e., Reference Platinum, Statement Platinum; Reference Sonata (Signature), Statement Sonata (Signature); Reference Master, Statement Master and Reference Reference, Statement Reference. Price points will be the same for both corresponding models. We will not be discontinuing the Reference series, but will offer both series of cartridges.

The Reference series will be the high output cartridges (5.0 mV) while the Statement series will be the low output versions (0.5 mV).

There are physical differences between the Reference cartridges and the new Statement cartridges. Each Grado cartridge has four coils. The Reference series cartridges have a total of 6,000 turns of wire on the coils. The Statement series has a total of 380 turns. Since we have considerably fewer turns in the Statement series, we can use a much larger size wire. This new wire has over 16 times more area for carrying the signal; it also lowers the resistance from 470 ohms in the Reference series to 2 ohms in the Statement series. Fewer turns of wire on the coils shortens the distance the signal must travel from 125 feet to a little more than 7 feet. In the Statement series we have also shortened the magnetic generating gap in the stylus, increasing the flux density.

What will be heard from these differences? The new Statement series will have a sound that is wide open, uncolored, with better definition and transparency and increased dynamics. The Statement series offers enhanced tracking with improved imaging and more musical information. All of this, along with Grado's usual warm, smooth, full bodied, non-fatiguing and rich sound qualities.

If your system can be driven with a 0.5 mV output phono cartridge, then you deserve to be listening to the new Grado Statement Series.

 

[robM]

Interesting stuff. A good friend of mine uses a Decca London Reference and swears by it. I really need to try one out in my system. I think there is a lot to be said about moving iron....good things of course.