Car oil? - hi performance for, erm turntables?

SMEagol

SMEagol

Because we wants it...
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Just cleaned out the graphite oil in my TT as being secondhand I reckon its been in too long. Lacking my usual finish line high torque wet lube (actually for mountainbikes!) that I use in emergencies to great effect as the GF has hidden it in the name of tidying up. I headed in the direction of the car and stuck a few drops of magnatec in the well instead, and what do you know the bearings never been smoother possibly outspinning my previous graphite oil at probably £10 a teaspoon.

So what do we make of this? should I head back to the hifi shop as soon as I get chance, or stick with the automotive approach?
I know TT oil is there for a reason, but so were pet rocks...
 
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Firstly, I would say that (in my opinion) the oil in turntable bearings doesn't really get 'old' in the sense that car engine oil does as it is under virtually zero temperature cycling and very little pressure - except at the tip where most of it is squeezed out from between the surfaces any way. Secondly, the amount of time the bearing spins for is largely the result of the viscosity of the oil and is not necessarily a good thing (though it may be); a more viscous oil will make the bearing more 'rigid' but will also increase the drag on the bearing and therefore the load on the motor. Some turntable designers believe that a certain amount of bearing drag load on the motor is a good thing and aids speed stability.
 
I'd never thought about solidity in the bearing, thats interesting. I don't doubt I'll get some black gold graphite oil pretty soon anyway as I'm obsessive tweeker...
 
While TT oils wont necessarily get old in the conventional temp cycling way they do accrue contaminants over time.
As the tolerances can be tighter and the condition far more demanding in modern high performance car engines you could opt for a drop of fully synth 0-40w:D Try adding a dash of Molyslip or STP and listen to taste.
 
yes ....changing the oil in an aging thorens td 160bc a few years ago made quite a difference ....the oil was very dark and thick and was replaced by a much less viscosic synthetic .....
 
I'm no expert, but I think that oil changes viscosity with temperature. I know that my car engine runs a touch hotter than my TT and I'd be concerned about unpredictable viscosity and the effect that might have on the motor long term if using engine oil.
 
I changed the oil in my Garrard 401 a while back and used fully synthetic motor oil. Mobil one seems to be a popular choice, but I used the stuff I had in my shed :D. All seems fine so far, although as I have a leaky gasket I'll redo the oil service shortly and might try the Mobil to see if it makes any difference. Btw the old oil was still clean-ish as far as I could tell, but the speed seems a bit more consistent since the change although it takes a tad longer to settle after switch on.
 
lbr said:
I'm no expert, but I think that oil changes viscosity with temperature. I know that my car engine runs a touch hotter than my TT and I'd be concerned about unpredictable viscosity and the effect that might have on the motor long term if using engine oil.
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Precisely why 0-40w was recommended the 0 indicating full lubrication from cold.
 
Tom Fletcher of Nottingham Analogue always used to swear by Molyslip oil - he always advised me to use that. . .have I remembered the name correctly - its a standard oil from Halfords
 
so how do these guys justify so much for a tiny tube? I seen 5mls go for as much as £30!
I appreciate the time that might go into this, is it to do with the raw ingredients of these elixirs. At the end of the day most bearings seem to be a brass/bronze tube with a ball bearing at the bottom and a pointy spindle. Hardly rocket science, although the machining is to high tolerance. I've been intrigued by these pump lubricating bearings, how do these work at the simplist level? Do they have a radical input on the sound? I always worry that regardless of what oil I use the contact point of my traditional bearing could be running dry... (one more neurosis to add to the list!)
 
I know I've seen a turntable out there that the spindle actually seizes in the socket if the temp falls below a certain temp - tolerances are so tight. Wonder what oil that one uses! The best oil for my centrepin reel is good old sewing machine oil - but really dont know if it would be good in a tt. Just stear very well clear of WD40...
 
stephen said:
I know I've seen a turntable out there that the spindle actually seizes in the socket if the temp falls below a certain temp - tolerances are so tight.
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just put a record on... oh gawd where's the wifes hair dryer when you need it...

:D
 
the Verdier is temp compensated.

there's little to worry about with any oil you may use as long as viscosity does not add stiction and load the motor too much. A little more load may be a good thing for AC's.

The bearing point will run unlubed unless you use some incredible high tenacity grease, oil, any oil will be forced out from between the ball/spindle tip and the thrust plate.

viscosity is much more of a concern for oil pumping bearings than any other bearing.
 
I've seen more & more magnetic bearings on TTs these days - particularly Clearaudio. I assume the don't need lubricating?

My Acoustic Sig is "self lubing", apparently. The copper bearing collar is impregnated with oil during the manufacturing process and releases small amounts of oil as it wears. Or something like that. Sounds fishy to me, but they told me never to oil the bearing and it sounds fine without it....

DT

I bought some vdH bearing oil a while back for an older CA deck and that worked wonders. Should've done for £35!
 
Yes it does sound good, I reckon I prefer "my liquid engineering" though... Its a bugger to stop now! I'm just trying a few things before I probably end up with another cartridge (gulp) - oil seemed the cheapest tweek!...
 
Dynamic Turtle said:
I've seen more & more magnetic bearings on TTs these days - particularly Clearaudio. I assume the don't need lubricating?

My Acoustic Sig is "self lubing", apparently. The copper bearing collar is impregnated with oil during the manufacturing process and releases small amounts of oil as it wears. Or something like that. Sounds fishy to me, but they told me never to oil the bearing and it sounds fine without it....
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Sintered bronze - its porous and holds oil in its structure.

the clearaudio magnetically opposed bearing do use a drop or two of light weight oil on the ceramic spindle. If "spinniness" wins the prize these would be contenders - I have one in my office at home - on a "spin test" (I know its not really the measure, but still), it'll run about 25 minutes with the belt off on a flick of the wrist. Certainly gives some indication how low friction they are anyway.
 
I had a Transcriptors Reference with plenty of Black Gold in the bearing, all those spinny weights seemed to keep it going forever. I liked the sound with a silver wired SME mkII arm. Despite a round "critical panning" by hifi snobs I still contend that was one of my best sounding TTs ever. Certainly the most alive, with a humble cart like an ortofon 1042. Its your old rotating mass thing, maybe even centrifugal force...
 
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