Flat earther?

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h.g.

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Browsing the forum I have seen this term used a number of times but cannot work out quite what it means.
 
I believe flat earther is someone who cares less about soundstage and more about PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing).

Generally I guess the term is used to describe someone with outdated ideas/thinking.
 
> I believe flat earther is someone who cares less about soundstage and more about PRaT
> (pace, rhythm and timing).

PRaT is part of NAIM marketing? And it refers to a feeling rather than anything tangible that can be measured?

> Generally I guess the term is used to describe someone with outdated ideas/thinking.

Outdated and wrong or outdated and unfashionable. I noted that it was not necessarily considered a derogatory term by those that identified themselves with it.

> I always think of flat earthers as Vinyl/Valve/Lowther types.

This company:

http://flatearthaudio.com/?page_id=2

refers to a "flat earth" philosophy that looks a lot like the original "high fidelity"/"audiophile" split but with natural rhythm and timing added.
 
h.g. said:
PRaT is part of NAIM marketing? And it refers to a feeling rather than anything tangible that can be measured?


.
Click to expand...

No, you can measure it.
Or more accurately, you can measure the things that make one product have more apparent PRaT than another.
 
RobHolt said:
No, you can measure it.
Or more accurately, you can measure the things that make one product have more apparent PRaT than another.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand. I have never seen any definitions/descriptions of PRaT in a physical sense (do they exist?) but this would follow if a device with PRaT and a device without changed the sound field an audible amount.
 
valves and vinyl .... flat??


no... that is described as ''round'' in this idiotic lanaguage paradigm.

'flat' is a term used traditionally for 'linn' and 'naim' systems which apparently exude pace, rhythm and timing.


The terms are as useful today (IMHO) as a chocolate teapot.
 
h.g. said:
Not sure I understand. I have never seen any definitions/descriptions of PRaT in a physical sense (do they exist?) but this would follow if a device with PRaT and a device without changed the sound field an audible amount.
Click to expand...

I think Rob means that the products which exhibit "PRaT" have certain characteristics which can be measured.
 
Prat

Well, we live and learn.
I always thought it was a term used to describe someone who believed all the hype expounded by manufacturers.
 
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Dev said:
I think Rob means that the products which exhibit "PRaT" have certain characteristics which can be measured.
Click to expand...

Have these characteristics ever been identified/measured in a physical sense? That is, like valve sound, horn sound, ribbon sound, and similar.
 
It is simple, when the Linn / Naim "thing" emerged in the Late 70's a couple of reviews or articles were written by Martin Collums where the whole marketing concept instigated by Ivor T at Linn was referred to as "flat earth" as it denied the prevailing objectivist status quo, and moved decision making to a very biased and dictated subjectivist view point. The Linn / Naim dealers reviewers and customers thought this was daft but adopted it as a badge of honour which was even perpetrated into a magazine devoted to the clique called "The Flat Response" a magazine for flat earthers.

The name stuck and was generally used in the 80's and 90's to represent product that was sold subjectively. Specifically Linn - Naim but other manufacturers like Exposure - NVA - Rega - Pink Triangle and many others no longer with us were considered part of the ethos. Now a'days the term is used more as a term of derision aimed at those still stuck in the old Linn / Naim brainwash, or as they are now affectionately called Glasgow and Salisbury sheep :D
 
h.g. said:
I was aware of the mainstream meaning of flat earther when I posted but it did not seem to be used in this way as a derogatory term. Similarly for PRaT, I do not know the origins of the term but had guessed that whoever first came up with it was taking the p*ss. Yet it took hold.
Click to expand...
PRaT - or pace rhythm and timing was part of the Linn marketing concept of what they called "music first", a very laudable concept apart from it became very biased to mean that the *character* of the equipment was imposed on customers as the only correct way, which was the brainwash. So other gear had little chance in that market as it either had to copy that character (so why buy it?) or try to impose another character or lack of character. It has damaged the subjectivist movement or ethos in Hi-Fi and caused a revert by some people back to the old objectivist way and just potentially another specs war between manufacturers, that was inflicted on us in the old days.

Simply both extremes are bloody daft. 1/ Objectivist daftness - how can you buy hi-fi without listening to your music. 2/ Subjectivist daftness - imposing a musical character as the only correct way. For subjectivism to work what is required is a flat playing field and wide choice, to allow customers to make *personal* choice, this is what we haven't had in a brainwashed, biased, high profit devoted, greedy slurping industry that has emerged, with daft prices and daft ideas.

Answer - back to the enthusiast roots. High profit retailers and manufacturers will die, magazines will go on-line or die, 2nd hand will become the major seller in the market, DIY and bodging will become a major part of the hobby - no longer mainstream, just a bunch of happy nerds :D
 

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