Forum clarification?

For interest, these speakers use the same woofers and also the same tweeters. I think thee are the only ones that have the same woofers and also tweeters.

Burmester B80 - $40,000

Okay I'm sure the cabinet is much more expensive being all metal, and they have an additional woofer, but my point is, you don't get better parts than those used in the Kensai and they are not usually found in such affordable speakers.

The Jamo Concert are 15 years old and not made any-more. The Linkwitz Orion is a DIY kit speaker. In fact I can only think of Opera Loudspeakers as a similar priced example, also just over £2k.

b80.jpg


I can also think of another one that was £70,000 but I just can't remember it. It has a woofer tweeter woofer configuration and a metal enclosure. I think it was on the front of hi-fi world once.

Also the new Grimm Audio LS1 - $14,000

fot_ls1.jpg


Krell Resolution 3 - $4,000

product_322692.jpg
 
nando said:
i really think you should give them a listen, they are super no matter what music you listen to, :) worth every penny
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I will do that. I'm not sure anything is worth its price tag when it comes to hifi. :)

@Tenson
You have shown that everything is overpriced when it comes to hifi/hiend. That does not change the fact that your speakers are expensive :). That's only my opinion.
 
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I'm not sure everything goes in the same basket. Only a few companies are making cars. Hifi is a bit more voodoo.
 
Janko said:
I'm not sure everything goes in the same basket. Only a few companies are making cars. Hifi is a bit more voodoo.
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I think the voodoo bit is in most peoples heads. Whatever you think of building by numbers the BBC proved it is possible to determine criteria and then build a speaker to meet that criteria. No voodoo, just simple competent engineering. To be honest it is refreshing to see quality as a focal point on a product, the high price being a consequence. There are a number of companies whos approach seems to be the other way round, i.e. a high price will attract a certain type of customer.:)
 
Cable Monkey said:
I think the voodoo bit is in most peoples heads. Whatever you think of building by numbers the BBC proved it is possible to determine criteria and then build a speaker to meet that criteria. No voodoo, just simple competent engineering. To be honest it is refreshing to see quality as a focal point on a product, the high price being a consequence. There are a number of companies whos approach seems to be the other way round, i.e. a high price will attract a certain type of customer.:)
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I agree. Snob effect is very strong. Most of the customers do not judge gear according to sound quality, consequently there are "hundreds" of companies selling cables costing 1000+ GBP. Many of them do not even produce cables :D

I will have to listen to these Kensai speakers, but I'm a bit suspicious about any passive speakers lately, since actives offer so much more for the same amount of money. :rolleyes: I also like to see some tweeters on the back of the speaker.
 
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I like active speakers too, I used to use PMC AML1 before I built my own stuff.

I think with 2 way speakers there is not a lot to be gained in sound quality from an acive configuration, but I admit most active speakers offer better value for money if you are not fussy about choosing your amps. When you go more than 2-way active becomes better sounding too. If you add the Advantage to the Kensai it becomes an active / powered hybrid.
 
I'm not sure passive can match active resolution, clarity, distortion, driver-crossover-amp cohesion, linearity.... Passive to me (for the same amount of money) is like listening to music with a blanket over the speakers (if I exaggerate a bit).

It is very interesting what Srajan Ebaen has written about speakers you mentioned :)

" If I were to retire from the hobby and do music listening without any concern for what our kind obsesses over; if my attention was as focused on some other gig, endeavor or calling that consumed my working day hours as does my present 6moons gig; I'd seriously look into this class of active monitor speaker. It could well be the most practical appliance-like solution for the task. In fact, if my lifestyle was such as to include vacation homes, I might do it right now."
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/pmc/aml1_2.html

Passive is more hobby than science, I think.
 
It depends entirely on the ease with which you can 'properly' integrate the drivers without resorting to an excessively manipulative passive circuit.

If the drivers are fundamentally well behaved and you aren't asking the crossover to perform convoluted somersaults (notch filtering for example) then passive can work very well.

One reason for retaining the passive filter between the Kensai bass/tweeter is that active - with those drivers and in that position - brings no real benefit.
 
Hi

Just a few other examples -

Kudos C30 -

Uses excel tweeter, and I'm not sure of the price of the woofers... similarly priced units to the Audiosmile units -

the speaker is £4k.

Living Voice Avatar -
Scanspeak Revelator, not sure about the bass cones again. £2.5-£4k.



If you want better value, buy second hand or build a kit, or design your own accepting the results are an unknown quantity.
 
Personally i prefer passive driven loudspeakers as most of actives have very poor amps to justify the cost and sound, as to passive spkrs you can always change the sound via different amplification,
 
RobHolt said:
It depends entirely on the ease with which you can 'properly' integrate the drivers without resorting to an excessively manipulative passive circuit.

If the drivers are fundamentally well behaved and you aren't asking the crossover to perform convoluted somersaults (notch filtering for example) then passive can work very well.

One reason for retaining the passive filter between the Kensai bass/tweeter is that active - with those drivers and in that position - brings no real benefit.
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I see you offer additional tweeter. Have you thought about also offering something like this:
http://www.mark-daniel.com/Pro_En.asp?ProID=22

I've heard this one and it is doing wonders. The feeling they produce is very addictive. People who own it say there is no turning back after hearing it :) The musicians literally enter your home. I personally prefer dipoles or tweeters on the back of boxes which produce feeling of "watching" musicians in the studio but either way brings something a bit more interesting to the party in my opinion.
 
May I ask, how does a bit of extra omni-directional treble energy create the impression that the musicians have entered your home?
 
Interesting unit and good to see people recognising that the merit or super tweeters is due to action within the audible range, not above it.

The Audiosmile tweeter you mention has the facility to sit face-on to the listener or be angled upwards and outwards to improve the overall power response in room at HF.

It gives a different presentation without adding the obvious bright/forward character that simply boosting the on-axis response can give.
Subtle though if done correctly.
 
YNMOAN said:
May I ask, how does a bit of extra omni-directional treble energy create the impression that the musicians have entered your home?
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I'm not sure but I think it's psycho acoustics. If the reflection of the sound from the walls is not much different from the original sound in terms of tonality, than our brain "erases it". Evolution made us less sensitive to echoes. The speaker has to be placed at least 5 feet from the walls of course.
I have encountered this effect only when listening to omnidirectional speakers. The omnidirectional tweeter is probably enough since lower frequencies are spreading in all directions (more or less). The musicians enter the room like ghosts :D when you add omni hamonizer. I have never listened to any other super tweeters, but I'm sure about these babies. It shouldnt be hard make an omni tweeter as a DIY project either.
 
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The AudioSmile supertweeter for the Kensai does a very similar thing as the M&D. I recommend it to be sat on its angled back to face upwards. The ribbon unit is narrower than the M&K one so doesn't need the cone shape above it. Basically they are doing the same thing.

I really like the design of M&D speakers, the cabinets and woofers are great for the money. My only criticism comes for the tweeter unit which has higher distortion than I had anticipated. ADAM use the same technology (Air Motion Transformer), and I'd be curious to see how they perform. Mundorf make some very good ones.

High frequency reflections give our minds a cue as to the acoustic environment we are in. Creating a wider dispersion of these high frequencies to match the naturally wider mid and low frequencies provides more of the acoustic cues for our minds to lock onto. It tends to bring the musicians into the room with you, rather than taking you to the musicians recording venue, but it can be a very rewarding experience. Read my article on the perception of reflections: https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?p=288233#post288233
 
YNMOAN said:
Hmm.. thanks - interesting.
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Yes, it is interesting. Much more interesting than changing amps, dacs, cables and many other preocupations of audiophiles. Well in order to get an in the room impression your system needs to be transparent. Basic Nad probably wont do it :)

@ nando
if you are using active configurations you don't need as good amp as for passive one. IM distortion is so much lower because you don't feed all drivers with all harmonics coming from amp. Signal is separated before the amp and each driver receives only what it should.

@ tenson
I noticed raspy high freq. of M&D. I thought they were caused by the amp which was nuforce 9se v3 but obviously not :)
 

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