god strikes again

The Devil said:
So, since all the many religious faiths which are currently popular are to be "respected", it follows that it's quite all right for these people to murder alleged adulterers, because their religion says they must?



I understand the bible very well. It's a mass of contradictions made up from discordant documents. It makes absolutely nothing plain, and raises more questions than it answers. It is logically impossible to accept all parts of it as true. The whole thing is a transparent fraud.

Explain how many children Mary gave birth to, for starters.
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1) Your statement does not follow from mine. I made no such claim.

2. What is your evidence for your statement?

3. Mark 6:3 identifies four male siblings of Jesus as James, Joseph, Judas and Simon and refers to Jesus' sisters (plural but unspecified in number). Jesus is referred to as Mary's firstborn (Luke 2:7) so he was evidently the eldest of at least 7 children.
 
its always the oldest gets the new stuff, the younger ones get the hand me downs:( I wonder what the son of gods underpants were like? I bet the brothers would have made a mint on ye olde ebay.
 
lAmBoY said:
its always the oldest gets the new stuff, the younger ones get the hand me downs:( I wonder what the son of gods underpants were like? I bet the brothers would have made a mint on ye olde ebay.
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Dunno about the bruvs. St Michael made a few bob though.
 
Brothers - James, Jose, Judas, Simon.
Sisters - Mary, Salome.

Uncertain whether fathered by Joseph or his brother who took on the family after Joseph's death.

Ed.
 
Czechchris said:
1) Your statement does not follow from mine. I made no such claim.
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So, it follows that you don't think Islam deserves "respect". Why not?

Czechchris said:
2. What is your evidence for your statement?

3. Mark 6:3 identifies four male siblings of Jesus as James, Joseph, Judas and Simon and refers to Jesus' sisters (plural but unspecified in number). Jesus is referred to as Mary's firstborn (Luke 2:7) so he was evidently the eldest of at least 7 children.
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GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.

GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac.
HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son.

GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God.
JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots.

GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.

EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies.
EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbour.

EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God.

EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing.
GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing.
EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing.
2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men.

EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven.
JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven.

1SA 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword.
2SA 1:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite.
2SA 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa.
1CH 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God.

PS 58:10-11 The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance.
PR 24:16-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles.

MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin.
MT 11:22-24, LK 10:13-15 Jesus curses the inhabitants of several cities who are not sufficiently impressed with his mighty works.
MT 21:19, MK 11:12-14 Jesus curses a fig tree when it fails to bear fruit out of season.
MK 3:5 Jesus looks around "angrily."

MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle and humble.
JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins.

MT 26:52 Dispose of swords. All who take the sword will perish by it.
LK 22:36-38 Buy swords.

MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out.

MT 27:37 The inscription on the cross read: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews."
MK 15:26 "The King of the Jews."
LK 23:38 "This is the King of the Jews."
JN 19:19 "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews."

MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37 Jesus' last recorded words are: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
LK 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit."
JN 19:30 "It is finished."

.....and many more.

I'll let the inexplicably vague matter of how many children Mary had lie on file.
 
the Devil said:
So, it follows that you don't think Islam deserves "respect". Why not?"
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That also is not what I said. I merely made a comment without any judgement passed upon it. Any inference is entirely your own.

the Devil said:
I understand the bible very well.
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The list of supposed contradictions proves otherwise. It merely demonstrates that you can quote from websites.

Just taking the first of the list:
Have you actually read Genesis chapters 1 to 6? I am sure that someone of your intelligence would be able to resolve that supposed contradiction quite easily. You project on the forum as someone who has intelligence and thinking ability. Apply those qualities to that 'contradiction'.

[clue:]
A medical specialist examines a patient and tells the person "You have no liver problems". Some years later the same patient is examined by the same specialist and is told "You have a problem with your liver".
The two statements appear contradictory when taken alone; it is an understanding of the background to the comments which resolves the apparent contradiction. [end of clue]

Your comment on an 'inexplicably vague matter' of the number of Mary's children is just disingenuous, and not worthy of any further comment.
 
Czechchris said:
That also is not what I said. I merely made a comment without any judgement passed upon it. Any inference is entirely your own.
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Get off the fence. What's your opinion on the taliban execution?

Czechchris said:
The list of supposed contradictions proves otherwise. It merely demonstrates that you can quote from websites.
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Quoting from websites is much faster than typing.

Czechchris said:
Just taking the first of the list:
Have you actually read Genesis chapters 1 to 6? I am sure that someone of your intelligence would be able to resolve that supposed contradiction quite easily. You project on the forum as someone who has intelligence and thinking ability. Apply those qualities to that 'contradiction'.

...Your comment on an 'inexplicably vague matter' of the number of Mary's children is just disingenuous, and not worthy of any further comment.
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Yes. As a child, I underwent protracted religious indoctrination by kindly Franciscan priests. Your defence of this contradiction is plain daft. An omniscient god would already know what was going to happen in the garden of eden in advance!

Can you please rebut the other biblical contradictions I listed, together with these:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

One might imagine that Jesus' siblings would be described in detail in the bible, but mostly all there is is vague references to "brothers" and unnamed, unnumbered "sisters". As an aside, did you know Mary's sister was the Auntie-Christ?
 
the Devil said:
Get off the fence. What's your opinion on the taliban execution?
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I'm not on the fence. If the video was indeed what you say it was, I condemn it. I abhor murder, and I also abhor adultery. I do not believe that any man has the authority to take a life.

the Devil said:
An omniscient god would already know what was going to happen in the garden of eden in advance!
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God allowed Adam and Eve to have free will. I, for one, am glad that I can exercise free will and choose whether to worship God or not, and that you have that free will too. Our children have free will to make their choices in life; we do our best to give them the best start that we can, but sometimes the choices they make upset us, even though we know what the result of a bad choice would be.

the Devil said:
Can you please rebut the other biblical contradictions I listed, together with these:
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I don't believe that 'rebut' is the correct word in this context. Many of those apparent contradictions can be resolved by taking into account the circumstances and context of the statements.

the Devil said:
One might imagine that Jesus' siblings would be described in detail in the bible
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I don't quite see why they should be. But if the information given is not sufficient for you, I cannot give you any more.

As an aside, did you know Mary's sister was the Auntie-Christ?
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Do you know, I actually find that quite funny! Thanks.

On the subject of your post regarding "honour your father and mother", there are two factors to take into account:
1) The Bible sometimes uses the word 'hate' in a relative sense, in order to highlight priorities. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Bible Words under the word "Hate" makes this point regarding miseo, the Greek word used:
(c)of relative preference for one thing over another, by way of expressing either aversion from, or disregard for, the claims of one person or thing relatively to those of another......Luke 14:26, as to the claims of parents relatively to those of Christ; John 12:25, of disregard for one's life relatively to the claims of Christ.
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2) Jesus also used hyperbole to stress important lessons.

The text you refer to (Luke 14:26) also says we should hate ourselves. The point is that a Christian should put Jesus first in his life. We are to honour our parents, but in areas where the claims of family or Christ conflict, then Christ takes priority.

We could probably go on and on with different texts being raised and questions asked and my attempting to answer them but I feel that I will never be able do this to your satisfaction, so it seems to me to be a fruitless exercise.
 
Czechchris said:
Our children have free will to make their choices in life; we do our best to give them the best start that we can, but sometimes the choices they make upset us, even though we know what the result of a bad choice would be.
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We don't "know" in the same sense that an omniscient being would know. We might not be thrilled to hear that they wanted to be an actor, for instance, knowing that most actors are unemployed. But on the other hand, they might enjoy it, and they might turn out to be the next Michael Caine.

Many of those apparent contradictions can be resolved by taking into account the circumstances and context of the statements.
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By twisting the meaning of the words, you can make anything out of any statement. When a PM gives a Minister his "full support", for example, he's for the high-jump!

I don't quite see why they should be. But if the information given is not sufficient for you, I cannot give you any more.
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It's a matter of public interest! This guy's supposed to be the son of god! Vague references to brothers & sisters isn't much cop. We know more about Wayne Rooney's family than JC's. [The catholics twist this very vagueness to argue that "brothers" just means "kinsmen", and that Mary remained a perpetual virgin]

We could probably go on and on with different texts being raised and questions asked and my attempting to answer them but I feel that I will never be able do this to your satisfaction, so it seems to me to be a fruitless exercise.
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You got that right. Glad you liked my joke.
 
The Devil said:
Religion is frequently a spur, or at least an excuse, for mankind to do evil things in the name of god.
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very true. profoundly religious jews incited the crucifixion of jesus.
of course the crusades were extremely misguided religious folk
 
Seeker_UK said:
Looks like a case of piss poor translation to me rather a fundamental religious failing. :)
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What do you know about the various bible translations, regarding their fidelity to the original? As you thought the 1st commandment was the "no-kill" one, you haven't exactly inspired confidence with your knowledge so far!
 
The Devil said:
What do you know about the various bible translations, regarding their fidelity to the original?
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I don't know anything about how they relate to the original but what I do know is that there is plenty of scope for error (intentional or otherwise) to be introduced into the versions we are quoting.
 
Seeker_UK said:
I don't know anything about how they relate to the original but what I do know is that there is plenty of scope for error (intentional or otherwise) to be introduced into the versions we are quoting.
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Well, it's quite plain that you don't know much about the bible.

Is a mistranslated bunch of contradictory (and often frankly absurd) stories a good moral compass, in your opinion?
 

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