Has Any One Heard The Northstar 32 Bit' Dac's

nando

nando

nando
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Essensio or the USB 32 bit ( both have USB connections) upsampling to 32 bit further reduces erros
new standard agreed for recording in 32 bit?
 
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Basil said:
Do you know of any amps or speakers that can cope with a 32bit signal?
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amps and speakers are analogue, what has that got to do with digital???????????
are you sure you know / if not speak to denon or tascam.
 
and? sacd went to 196khz everyone is going up to heaven, all i asked is as said on the thread, read again,
 
No we haven't heard them, are they ESS chips like everybody else's?
 
quote

sq225917 said:
No we haven't heard them, are they ESS chips like everybody else's?
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hi, apparently not, i am awaiting for more info, but i am interested on this digital format as most manufacturers are heading that way, i have been contacted as to who is familiar with this digital device so i am going to do more research but it sounds like a break through in convening both fulcrom between digital and almost analogue.
 
Sorry Nando that's just bollocks, it's dac, no more no less.

Keith I heard they have got someone decent doing them now though ;-)
 
has anyone been listening to radio3 and radio 2 hd audio broadcasts? electric proms are on hd audio,
 
Me too!
btw Spiral Groove is with Paul Millar, I know you won't believe it until you see pictorial proof though!
vbKeith.
 
nando said:
Essensio or the USB 32 bit ( both have USB connections) upsampling to 32 bit further reduces erros
new standard agreed for recording in 32 bit?
Click to expand...

1) 'upsampling' has nothing to do with 'bit'

2) 32 bit performance in an ADC or DAC is physically impossible due to
among others thermal noise limitations.

A good '24 bit' DAC gives 21-22 bits performance (132dB). A good '24 bit' ADC is worse than that.

The '32 bit' ESS design is a cluster of independent DACs operating in parallel and summed. This reduces noise somewhat. It attains perhaps 23-24 bit performance on a good day.

The 32 bit data interface leading to such a DAC is mildly interesting in the specific case that signal processing is going on between the source data and the DAC itself, such as crossover filtering or over/upsampling.

But that's about it.

Far far far from revolutionary.
 
A DAC is a circuit that converts digital measures of audio amplitude in discrete steps into a continuous analog electrical equivalent of the sound to be reproduced. We have been taught to associate the number of bits in that digital word with the quality of the calculation, but the rate of the converter also comes into play. If we do conversion at 16 bits, 48,000 times per second, it is not the same as doing conversion at 16 bits and 96,000 times per second. Along comes 1 bit DACs and SACD that convert at a much higher rates and the whole idea of performance and bit depth falls apart. But in a ladder DAC like MSB uses, the performance of the DAC is directly linked to the precision of the ladder, and the number of bits in that ladder are critical.

MSB has been shipping a true 24 bit DAC for many years, and now has produced a true 26 bit DAC in the Diamond DAC IV. But we are now facing bold product claims about a new 32 bit DAC availible, namely the Sabre 32 DAC chip. This is a DAC chip just like any other from Burr Brown, AKM or Analog Devices. Lets look a little deeper to avoid any confusion about what this DAC actually is.

Here is what their web site says. "The advantage of using this 32-bit process to reconstruct a 16-bit digital signal (i.e. Redbook CD) is simple; This process interpolates the digital information more accurately by calculating the finer steps with 32-bit resolution that were lost during the analog-to-digital 16-bit mastering process. "

Notice that they use the word "process " not DAC. Notice they talk about "reconstruct " and "interpolate " - both digital terms, not analog conversion. All this is saying is that they are using a digital filter with "32 bit resolution " to do their math. Big Yawn.

The DAC in question is the Sabre DAC with a retail price of $39. According to the ESS web site, this DAC is designed to bring "true professional digital audio to the mass consumer home entertainment market ".

Lets look at the Sabre Datasheet. Input resolution is 32 bit. Digital filter: 32 bit architecture. Thats all it has to say except it has a THD of -110 dB. So what is the DAC technology? They do not even say!

We dig deeper and find a White Paper. Ah, it is a delta sigma DAC just like everyone else's. Then we find this quote. "After all the DSP and complex noise shaping of the signal is complete the digital number must be converted to an analog output. In principle the typically six bit number may be applied to a six bit DAC and the analog output is produced. "

So the hot new 32 bit DAC is actually a 6 bit DAC! Right from their own white paper. It is undoubtably a good DAC for the mass consumer market it was designed for. It is certainly nothing of interest to the high-end community, especially as the the DAC, digital filter and sample rate converter that cannot be dissabled are all bundled in a single chip so no opportunity exists to improve its performance.

So be informed and do not be fooled by the over-the-top advertising made by the audio companies who actually use this $39 chip.
 
As opposed to the cut and paste marketing rebuttal from the company who use good old fashioned resistors to give you D to A conversion.

Tell me Paul, how do MSB manage to get resistors manufactured to 26 bit accuracy, and how they do they match enough of them to build a full ladder...

Everyone knows it's all bullshit, any DAC can do the maths right, the skill is in the filter and power supply design, signal and RF handling.

You can have the best engine block in the world, it doesn't matter if the rest of the car isn't up to scratch.
 

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