Hearing is Believing

That may be the aim, I understand that, but I don't think it is achieved.

The expectation (especially if the participant is a forum reader) is that there is no difference to hear in thee tests. Time & again it is said differences disappear under blind testing conditions, that those who 'hear' the differences are deluded brainwashed or plain mistaken.

I wouldn't want to 'prove' myself under these condition, especially as Tony just posted that under strong external stimuli the ears will lie to you.
 
Alan Brown said:
I wouldn't want to 'prove' myself under these condition, especially as Tony just posted that under strong external stimuli the ears will lie to you.
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I don't understand the 'proving myself' bit - as far as I'm concerned it just removes the visual clues and therefore the manufacturer / dealer spin along with any other preconception etc and enables me to trust my ears alone. I enjoy blind tests as I honestly don't care what "wins", or even if I can hear a difference (though I usually can) - I just like the idea of pure ear-based auditioning. Those who protest against blind dems the most loudly tend to have an ideology, a product line, or both IME, i.e. something to lose. Any true audiophile should welcome such an audition as it allows you to focus on the auditory input with nothing else clouding the picture. If a blind test is in anyway stressful it's being done wrong IMO. They shouldn't ever be used as a tool to trip people up, this is just hi-fi after all, it's no big deal - I just see them as a relaxed method of auditioning kit amongst friends minus the visual cues. I'd like to do more of them.

Tony.
 
Dave Simpson said:
Then why is it you never see any of these objectivists using £200 Pioneer receivers in their personal rigs? Surely that would be the logical choice with the difference being spent on better speakers or more software?
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Yes you do.

I use a Quad 34 preamp (and usually just use the internal MC card) bought from eBay for £150 combined with a Quad 306 power amp bought for £140.

I've used expensive amps in the past including Naim, Exposure, Linn and Croft but am perfectly happy these days with the little Quad pair. If I need more power I'll sub something a bit bigger but it won't be expensive.

Simon (Tenson) uses a Cyrus 3 integrated amplifier at home.
Sounds as good as anything else - in fact when we did our first hi-fi show we used that very amplifier connected with lawnmower speaker cable and 50p per metre interconnect cable. Nobody complained and in fact the journalists visiting the room asked for samples of the speaker to review!
You work it out :)

But £200 amplifiers can look a bit insubstantial. Spending a bit more for something nice, or vintage is fine.
 
Alan Brown said:
So if you are part of a blind test, where all the external stimuli are designed to tell you there is no difference between items of kit, when you know the expectation of forum posters is that blind testing reveals there are no differences anyhow.....

Isn't that expectation bias also? :)
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Not all blind tests come up 'no difference', and none of the external stimuli are telling you anything other than to use just your ears.
 
RobHolt said:
Yes you do.

I use a Quad 34 preamp (and usually just use the internal MC card) bought from eBay for £150 combined with a Quad 306 power amp bought for £140.

I've used expensive amps in the past including Naim, Exposure, Linn and Croft but am perfectly happy these days with the little Quad pair. If I need more power I'll sub something a bit bigger but it won't be expensive.

Simon (Tenson) uses a Cyrus 3 integrated amplifier at home.
Sounds as good as anything else - in fact when we did our first hi-fi show we used that very amplifier connected with lawnmower speaker cable and 50p per metre interconnect cable. Nobody complained and in fact the journalists visiting the room asked for samples of the speaker to review!
You work it out :)

But £200 amplifiers can look a bit insubstantial. Spending a bit more for something nice, or vintage is fine.
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Your Quad and Simon's Cyrus are both part of the world of "hifi". If both of you used a receiver, you'd be more convincing ...and do as Tones does IIRC, connect some of your cables "backwards" permanently just to thumb your nose at the hifi community;-)

Seriously though, one of best hifis I've ever heard was a Rega P2 w/Basik III into Cyrus integrated (don't remember if outboard PSX was connected) into Phase Tech tower loudspeakers.
 
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Dave Simpson said:
Your Quad and Simon's Cyrus are both part of the world of "hifi". If both of you used a receiver, you'd be more convincing ;-)
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Convincing enough I think.

No one is arguing that equipment that doesn't meet basic hi-fi standards should be used.
So if you were going to suggest a $100 dollar all-in-one from the superstore - don't bother :)

..and do as Tones does IIRC, connect some of your cables "backwards" permanently just to thumb your nose at the hifi community.
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LOL - I do.
 
Dave Simpson said:
Your Quad and Simon's Cyrus are both part of the world of "hifi". If both of you used a receiver, you'd be more convincing ...and do as Tones does IIRC, connect some of your cables "backwards" permanently just to thumb your nose at the hifi community;-)
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How can you have a 'backwards' with an A/C signal?
 
Some have suggested the copper is changed in some way during the insulation extrusion process. IIRC, back in the early eighties, Floyd Tool of Canada's National Research Council found a correlation with wires exhibiting a resonance at 50KHz under certain conditions. That's the best I can give you as to a "why."
 
Dave Simpson said:
Some have suggested the copper is changed in some way during the insulation extrusion process. IIRC, back in the early eighties, Floyd Tool of Canada's National Research Council found a correlation with wires exhibiting a resonance at 50KHz under certain conditions. That's the best I can give you as to a "why."
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If that's the case, it still won't matter as the signal is A/C, you do know what A/C means, don't you?
 
Basil said:
If that's the case, it still won't matter as the signal is A/C, you do know what A/C means, don't you?
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Yeah, it's the opposite of DC. We alternate the route of electrons displaced every sixty seconds in my neighborhood, how about yours? ;-)

Hey, I don't pretend to understand "why" or honestly care. I heard it with the few times I bothered checking (and it made little difference) so I leave the cables connected the way they're marked by the manufacturer and just keep on livin' life.
 
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Dave Simpson said:
Yeah, it's the opposite of DC. We alternate the route of electrons displaced every sixty seconds in my neighborhood, how about yours? ;-)

Hey, I don't pretend to understand "why" or honestly care. I heard it with the few times I bothered checking (and it made little difference) so I leave the cables connected the way they're marked by the manufacturer and just keep on livin' life.
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50Hz here.

I'd bet if someone swapped them without you knowing, you'd not notice.
 
Basil said:
50Hz here.

I'd bet if someone swapped them without you knowing, you'd not notice.
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You might be surprised. I spotted one "piece" of NACA backwards once (by ear) in a six pack. That even scared the hell out of me ;-)

Honestly, it was nothing more than luck. I was extremely familiar with this system and I was listening in troubleshooting mode (specifically looking for a high frequency problem with the left channel) and using my favorite disk at the time -Alice In Chains "Unplugged" - which is a magnificent recording so...
 
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Basil said:
How can you have a 'backwards' with an A/C signal?
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Cable directionality is a small difference and with most cables doesn't exist. It seems to be mostly prevalent with high cap stranded twisted or braided cables like Litz construction. So there are things you can do in cable manufacture to make them directional, but personally the difference is so small as to be not important.
 
hahah. directional cables, oh FFS sake. Get a grip on yourself. There is no such thing recognised in any field of science.

But you got those magic ears.
 

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