Is their much hope for future graduates?

When I went to university, back in 1983, it was expected that undergraduates would start to produce original research by the end of their first year (this was in the philosophy department, other depts may have had different policies). Anyone expecting to get a 2.1 or better had to have read a lot and developed enough to be writing pretty challenging and original stuff by the time they reached the third year.

I don't see the same standards today, TBH. Most philosophy syllabuses I see nowadays seem to have adopted the modular approach of the old polytechnics - this term students "do" subjects A, B and C, next term, D, E, and F, where "doing" the subject seems to mean reading a few overview textbooks about it.

I don't like elitism, but the old status of universities was a good one, I think: universities were supposed to be institutions primarily devoted to encouraging original research, amongst both staff and students. That seems to be disappearing fast.

-- Ian
 
Elitism is what a University should be all about, shouldn't it? A lot of so-called Universities these days are merely re-named Polytechnics.
 
Originally posted by cookiemonster
Is there anyone who doesn't have a degree about this place?:eek:
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Yep - me :) I went to Bristol Uni to study pharmacology (how drugs work, no, medical drugs) because some bullshit "vocational guidance" test at school said I was apparently going to be good at "life sciences". OK, I'll study medicine then I thought. Well, my teachers suggested that I didn't have the "social skills" to be a doctor :D :rolleyes: so maybe I should consider something more research oreinted like pharmacology.

The fact that my A levels were Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry didn't appear to matter to them (and neither to me apparently :shame: ). The fact that I was already a computer geek hacking away in 6502 assembler on a BBC Micro and Commodore Pet should have told them (and me) something too.

Well, two years into Pharmacology and I really was not a happy bunny. Way too much stuff to remember and far too little to understand. And of course I was spending all my time writing software for the physiology and biochemistry departments instead of doing the work I was supposed to. Two years in it was too late to change to what I should have been doing (Computer Science) so I quit.

To cut a long story short, I was then very lucky to find a job with the Bank of England as a COBOL progammer :eek: and after that I never looked back :) Since then, the lack of a degree has never hindered me in any significant way.

Michael.
 
Yes, but education is about 'training' folk to work/labour now isn't it, and not encouraging and guiding thought on how to live or be human - no original thinking or research, just spewing out cogs for the machine, ensuring its smooth operation? Tertiary education is just further 'regurgitation', moulding and specialisation of intended labour. Education in life is bereft in both the dying family unit and in education.
 
Two years in it
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I forgot about that - you rebel dropout you:D

I managed 2 1/2 years :eek: before jacking it in. A combination of boring factors....which i will spare you from - but surely that's a record? Like doing 25miles of the marathan before a sudden urge to do a shit takes over.

I now slum it amongst the labouring hoardes.

You done alright Mike:cool: :)

I don't see the same standards today, TBH. Most philosophy syllabuses I see nowadays seem to have adopted the modular approach of the old polytechnics - this term students "do" subjects A, B and C, next term, D, E, and F, where "doing" the subject seems to mean reading a few overview textbooks about it.
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I agree entirely. I picked my 'modules' for such a course last year for some manic reason. On this occasion i flunked out after 1 month. Surely that is a record too, at the other end of the spectrum? Or am i just searching for dodgy accolades, having failed to get any recognisable ones:D . But the degree course was exactly as you describe
 
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I think it just depends from each university, Salford is not exactly Oxford or Cambridge but from my experience its better than a lot of universities. There is no option modules on my course so I am forced to do a maths module, I was also forced to do a video broadcasting technology module last year. These are not modules I would have picked but I have learn't a lot from doing them.

I will say that some of the team work modules are utter crap though. I have a mate at a similar course at Bolton Insitute and he never seems to have any work do at home, in the hight of my semesters last year I was doing 10 hours a day at home (only for a few weeks though).

I my university is placed at 29 out of 110 for computer science and that with the fact its got a good employment rate should be good.

I could have gone to Manchester met which is an ex poly, I am glad I didn't now though, there is a report tonight in the MEN about falling standards in the MET and Bolton Insitute.

I guess at the end of the day the employee's don't really care too much what univeristy you went to, althouh saying you went to York or Cambridge must look good, I think they are more bothered about what you have learn't and your general attitudue.

I don't mind anybody saying standards have slipped if they have first hand experience of it, but when you get Mr Bloggs the bricky down at the pub saying that A levels are piss easy these days it just annoys me. My sister got 5 A's in her AS's but she did work so hard to get them, she's been back one week already everytime I see her she has got her head in a book, I was never that bad!
:D
 
Nope, total waste of time and money, get a real job (by which I mean builder, plumber, sparky, roofer, etc), a degree in looking at the bottom of a pint of beer isn't going to get you very far and being £25k in debt can't be fun! If ya want to be in debt, buy a house, at least you'll have something to show for it.
 
It doesn't take a degree to code a forum, its just a mass of css, php and bits and pieces of JavaScript, if you have the time it wouldn't be too hard to work out, I run these things and I don't hold a degree, heck the only programming qualification I have is a C&G in VB. I did come across a bit strong, I didn't mean all degree's are useless, but its not always appropriate to go to uni, just cos everyone else does, doesn't mean you have to. The thing is I have seen a few people go to uni and really not benefited from it at all, one still doesn't have a job after 4 years, so I am a little cynical of the whole thing, the other person, has no common sense, all brain, but has no "real life" experience.
 
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I'd agree with Lee there. As somebody who runs a software company and occasionally has to employ people, I never look for formal qualifications. I look for whether the candidate is confident, opinionated, and disrespectful of routine. If they're all three, and can show they have good technical skills, they're likely to fit in better than somebody who has a degree but not the first three things.

Having said that, most companies have different employment policies, and having an IT qualification should set you in good stead.

-- Ian
 
lhatkins - I agree with you, its just yes you did come on a bit strong at first so I probably took it the wrong way.

If everybody did go to university then it would have serious impacts on the econemy and yes we still need plumbers and sparky's. But its not a jon suited for everybody, I for example don't like heights and am crap with my hands.
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
I'd agree with Lee there. As somebody who runs a software company and occasionally has to employ people, I never look for formal qualifications. I look for whether the candidate is confident, opinionated, and disrespectful of routine. If they're all three, and can show they have good technical skills, they're likely to fit in better than somebody who has a degree but not the first three things.


-- Ian
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well you are one in a million mate
I spent 3 years training with a private training company ( language C) and couldnt get a job, im now studying with OU (currently C++) with looks toward a diploma or degree, i am finding it increasingly harder to find advertised jobs for trainee or junior. Most are now advertised asking for a Degree at least, ive even seen jobs for trainee wanting the applicant to have 18months experiance:confused: surely not a trainee with 18 months under the belt!
TBH it is now starting to get to me, ive been working as a contractor for HP (not in programming) for 4 years and that doesnt even seem to count for anything, i now need to choose what module ill do next year, im beggining to think it may not be worth it.
It seems to be very hard being 33 and trying to beat all the people in thier early 20's who have degree's.
Hell i cant even get any work experiance.
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
I'd agree with Lee there. As somebody who runs a software company and occasionally has to employ people, I never look for formal qualifications. I look for whether the candidate is confident, opinionated, and disrespectful of routine. If they're all three, and can show they have good technical skills, they're likely to fit in better than somebody who has a degree but not the first three things.

Having said that, most companies have different employment policies, and having an IT qualification should set you in good stead.

-- Ian
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Of course the downside to any company with the "only employ graduates" policy is that you end up working with a lot of stuck up T0$$ERS! I am glad however that like sideshow there are employers out there that can look beyond the bits of paper and want to know what you can do and if you fit in, that is a good way to get the right person for the job, well done Ian!
 
penance, I know exactly where your coming from, I thought about doing OU, but when I did the math, it just didn't work out, just not worth the cost and time. Freelance is one way to get experience. But I'm finding its more word of mouth that helps you get on, I was doing admin work for 2 years (beleive me it was really boring) then a web developer job came up, I knew the people who advertised it so I went over to have a chat, it was only temp work, but I took it on anyway, now I'm there full time, what web qualifications do I have, Bugger all! I can just do it, and that was good enough for them.

Not my first choice, I still want to be a mechanic or work in that field (its what I studied at college), but with my eyesight (or rather lack there of) that's not going to happen, so I'll never be really happy, I want something mroe hands on.
 
Originally posted by amazingtrade
lhatkins - I agree with you, its just yes you did come on a bit strong at first so I probably took it the wrong way.

If everybody did go to university then it would have serious impacts on the econemy and yes we still need plumbers and sparky's. But its not a jon suited for everybody, I for example don't like heights and am crap with my hands.
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Ya I aplogies for that, its a habit of mine if I feel strongly about it, I tend to rush in all guns blazing then think about it afterwards.

Uni is seen through my eyes as a fashion or status thing, kind of "I went to uni don't you know" kind of thing which I just can't stand. I get asked at work all the time what Uni I went too, like its some kind of club or something, just cos I'm the only one in the office who hasn't gone to uni, and they don't like it, its like I shoudn't be there or something, its really uncomfortable. Which probably makes me think of degrees in such a negitive way. So my opinions are just my experiences.
 
I did do a reply but I got this error message and the entire forum went down

CGI-limits reached, please try again later!

Anyway I just wanted to say no hard feelings.
 
Originally posted by amazingtrade
I did do a reply but I got this error message and the entire forum went down

CGI-limits reached, please try again later!

Anyway I just wanted to say no hard feelings.
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Probably coded by someone who had not finished their degree! hehe.

No worries mate, pritty thick skinned me! :)
 
Re loads of replies further back...

I don't think the IT job situation is necessarily as good as you think in certain places down here in the south. I'm thinking of where I live, which is very much west of Bristol. As someone once said to me, the (deep) south west is a bit a career graveyard.

I do think that I'm very lucky to have the job I have, and to be honest, feel like that I'd like to move on now but wouldn't as I know that opportunities are almost none existant at present for someone looking for similar work and salary. People who work for the company I work for, some have left the company and rejoined a year or so down the line, so what does that say?

Yes, I'd love to try out being a plumber or electrician (running my own business), but can't drive, otherwise I'd be in there. Going from personal experience, trades people of this ilk seem to be very hard to track down at a moments notice, and when they do they charge you an arm and a leg, so this must be a lucrative line of business. :)

BTW, having business acumen and aware of business, commerce and customer service is a great skill. Don't knock it, I bet a lot of students who've never worked in the real world don't have a clue.
 
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Originally posted by The Devil
....An A grade used to be confined to the top 10% of entrants, now that figure has doubled since the cap was removed in 1982...

More here.
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Wasn't that around the time that unleaded petrol came on the scene - any correlation??
 

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