Lathed v Standard CDs - listen and decide

I prefer

  • Total voters
    12
I doubt that many more people are likely to vote now. Eleven have now voted – even if that number was to be doubled it would mean next to nothing in a statistical sense.

Perhaps I am biased though as I want to know which was which.
 
Many thanks to Rob and Lee - that certainly was an interesting exercise. I don't suppose it was conclusive in any way but it was great fun! :cool:

And yes, David, I did do the comparison straight off my Squeezebox. :D
 
Graffoeman said:
Many thanks to Rob and Lee - that certainly was an interesting exercise. I don't suppose it was conclusive in any way but it was great fun! :cool:

And yes, David, I did do the comparison straight off my Squeezebox. :D
Click to expand...


They are not as good as cd players any way so I haven't missed any thing!


;)
 
absolutly no meaningful conclusion can possibly be drawn from this test with such a small sample ....thats regardless of result...........

let me poss a few question again ...

how can you prove to me sample A is the lathed disc ?....
how do we know that sample b[orA] has not been altered in the in away that the other has not ?
where are the controls samples .... ?
no explanation as to why one sample is louder than the other ....or is it only me thats had a duff download ?
were the cdr's cut before or after the audio track was coppied ?
why did you need to use cdr's ?
why not use to cd's as the lathe was designed for ....

I've said in previous threads that cdr's just don't seem to have the same effect ......therefore I struggle to understand why you used them .....
where as you could have niped down to tesco and bought two brand new identical cd's.....


At the cost of being repetitive ....if anyone wants to send me a pair of disc so they can carry out a "proper" listening test .... then pm me

there will be no cost other than the return postage .....

This is not being negative or paranoid ...its just there are too many variables and loose ends to make this anything other than flawed however lord able an attempt.
 
I think you missed the point entirely Zanash.

Still, at least you make the forum a more interesting place!
 
Oh **** off Pete, stop being a dick..

What this test shows me is that I can still recognise a lathed cd. I already knew that many people have shit systems and can't hear subtle differences if they don't actually know what they should hear as a a change.

Nothing new there, i doubt I would have picked with such certainty had i not heard a lathed cd before.
 
One isn't louder than the other and you can't get a 'duff' download in that sense (if it has downloaded and plays then it is not going to download any better) - draw your own conclusions.
 
Okay here is something interesting. This is a 'null test' for the two samples. That means what is here is only the difference between them.

I took both tracks, aligned them sample for sample with a distinctive point in each track, inverted the polarity of one and overlayed it with the other. If both tracks are exactly the same they will cancel out, if they are not the same then the difference between them will remain.

lathenulltestpicture.jpg


Interestingly there IS a difference! However it is very abrupt, either there is a difference or not. I guess this is evidence of error correction either recovering the data fully or not.

So, is the lathed CD reading more accurately? Rob and I did a few further tests. The conclusion was that the CD player did not read CDs exactly the same each time they are played, and the errors were sometimes in differnt places and lengths so this suggests it is not errors in the recording of the CD-R. But no, the lathed one didn't seem to be any more reliable!

To find out more about this I should do more tests, but to be honest I can't be bothered! I'm pretty certain ripping a CD with Exact Audio Copy on the computer would give repeatable reliable data, if you care about it!
 
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zanash said:
absolutly no meaningful conclusion can possibly be drawn from this test with such a small sample ....thats regardless of result...........

let me poss a few question again ...

how can you prove to me sample A is the lathed disc ?....
how do we know that sample b[orA] has not been altered in the in away that the other has not ?
where are the controls samples .... ?
no explanation as to why one sample is louder than the other ....or is it only me thats had a duff download ?
were the cdr's cut before or after the audio track was coppied ?
why did you need to use cdr's ?
why not use to cd's as the lathe was designed for ....

I've said in previous threads that cdr's just don't seem to have the same effect ......therefore I struggle to understand why you used them .....
where as you could have niped down to tesco and bought two brand new identical cd's.....


At the cost of being repetitive ....if anyone wants to send me a pair of disc so they can carry out a "proper" listening test .... then pm me

there will be no cost other than the return postage .....

This is not being negative or paranoid ...its just there are too many variables and loose ends to make this anything other than flawed however lord able an attempt.
Click to expand...

Pete,

Essentially you are doubting my integrity by suggesting that these files might be doctored in some way.

I can only assume this is because you didn't like the result, which is very poor form IMO.
Forum members can form their own conclusions.

We'll do cables next, so do get working on your next set of objections.

Anyway, now that silly distraction is dealt with, FWIW I slightly preferred B, the lathed disc as to me it did sound a tiny bit easier on the ear and less strident.
Might have been the effect of lathing or perhaps just the way the CD transport responded to the two discs in a more random way. Of course my listening test was sighted which should be taken into account.

I found it a useful exercise since I didn't expect to detect any difference at all.
 
Tenson said:
Okay here is something interesting. This is a 'null test' for the two samples. That means what is here is only the difference between them.

I took both tracks, aligned them sample for sample with a distinctive point in each track, inverted the polarity of one and overlayed it with the other. If both tracks are exactly the same they will cancel out, if they are not the same then the difference between them will remain.

lathenulltestpicture.jpg


Interestingly there IS a difference! However it is very abrupt, either there is a difference or not. I guess this is evidence of error correction either recovering the data fully or not.

So, is the lathed CD reading more accurately? Rob and I did a few further tests. The conclusion was that the CD player did not read CDs exactly the same each time they are played, and the errors were sometimes in differnt places and lengths so this suggests it is not errors in the recording of the CD-R. But no, the lathed one didn't seem to be any more reliable!

To find out more about this I should do more tests, but to be honest I can't be bothered! I'm pretty certain ripping a CD with Exact Audio Copy on the computer would give repeatable reliable data, if you care about it!
Click to expand...

Interesting that those differences don't manifest themselves as obvious problems, ie ticks, skips or glitches. Just a slightly different sound it seems.
 
I thought this was useful too. I did hear a difference and indeed plumped for the 'wrong' one. Preferring A over B.

I heard the Lathe demoed at Coherent a couple of years ago with 3 different CDs. FWIW I remember the Doves 'last broadcast' being the most noticeably improved item; there were differences of varying degrees with each CD. Apparently it makes sod all difference to some recordings.

Don't have a problem with the methodology at all. Glad I heard some difference, funny that it's the reverse of others, maybe my ears are out of phase? :D
 
Tenson said:
Interestingly there IS a difference! However it is very abrupt, either there is a difference or not. I guess this is evidence of error correction either recovering the data fully or not.
Click to expand...

Actually I would say 'not' I can think of several phenomena - or , more accurately, the same problem, and half a dozen places it could be manifest - that would lead to this, even assuming a perfect data 'read' in both cases. A noisy immersion thermostat could do it ;)
 
markabuckley said:
from a mathematic point of view the results are now very interesting - a perfect random distribution ?
Click to expand...

More voters would have been nice.
Still, we've got cables next which always stirs up much interest and excitement :)
 
So, do the test again but this time split the test up into those who failed and those who succeeded and see if we fall into the same groups again.
 

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