My dream system sounds........er,OK

glenda

glenda

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Hi folks,
I moved house a few months ago(long story) but managed to stash some cash to buy a system 2nd hand which I thought would work in my room - 12' x 12' with a low ceiling. I ended up with a Lavardin IT ( had and loved an IS ref previously), Audio Note ANe SPE HE ( works well against a back wall in a small room) and a Meridian 506.20 .Also bought a WT Amadeus GT. I did my research and had heard all the kit previously in various systems.
The sound is , how can I put it , thin . Very well recorded music does sound great - the other 80% just fails to grip me . There is no sense of depth or soundstage on CD , the TT is better but something is still missing.
I suspect I need some room dressing as it's a bit stark in there. Speaker cable is DNM . Stands are isoblue.
I'm going to have a fiddle with the set up over Christmas - if this doesn't work , any other suggestions folks?

Thanks

Tony
 
Hi Glenda

Im sorry to hear about what you are hearing.

You have good equipment, so lets lay the blame where it really lies - your room.

I would spend a very small amount on a measurement mic and software - such as a Behringer. The expense is nothing in comparison to what you've already spent and what you want to achieve.

You can then measure some white noise, publish the plots here, with room descriptions. Simon will probably help advise you where to try some room treatment.

The first step in fixing your problem is recognising what it actually is....what frequencies for example.

It will be a random accident if you fix the problem with a box change, so wouldnt reccomend that in the slightest, it's a more expensive (if more sexy) route.
 
I'd be tempted to push the speakers around a bit until you work-out whether the thinness is a room-mode, the speakers being plonked in a null, or 'must be' something else. Since the room is square-ish, and 12' = 95hz fundamental mode (right in the 'power' range of subjective bass) it's possible you've simply got them sat where they don't 'couple' well to the room...

Superposition holds, so one easy way to play at this: plonk a speaker where you normally sit and play music through it. Now wander about the locations you can live with speakers sitting, and put them where it sounds best-balanced to you. That's wher teh speakers will sound best when you sit down again...
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edit for cross-post: Bottleneck is right; I'm only suggesting a quick 'n'dirty fix to the same end.
 
Get rid of the DNM speaker cable for start. I wouldn't normally home in on cables in this way but DNM really is bloody awful and will emasculate any system.

It is a very 'eclectic' range of equipment you have assembled though and, to be honest, I'm not surprised it doesn't entirely gel.
 
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felix said:
Since the room is square-ish, and 12' = 95hz fundamental mode (right in the 'power' range of subjective bass)

.
Click to expand...

I think Felix is probably (almost certainly) right.

You will have to see how bad the suck-out is, and how much of it can be treated passively and with placement changes
 
Thanks for the feedback and some good points made including the advice not to box swap. Always tempting.
I would have expected some synergy between Lavardin and Audio Note and will concntrate on understanding the room acoustics over the Christmas break

Regards

Tony
 
I would second Mark's comment on the DNM cable.
I won't even call it speaker cable - worse than cheap bell wire.
Get some decent thickness copper flex in there. A generic 79 strand will do just fine.

The DNM is a high resistance cable and will alter the sound of the loudspeaker, proportionate to the cable length. Given the small room and therefore likely short lengths it won't be a dramatic effect, but probably audible.
 
Yes, as Rob suggests, a thick, copper, multi-strand would also be my recommendation.
__________________

I've just had a bit of a read up on the Lavardin amp and found this quote by Paul Messenger:

It would also go some way towards explaining why the Model IT sounds so astonishingly "clean" and free from hash and artifice. I found this extraordinary "cleanliness" almost disconcerting at first, as it seemed to leave the music understated almost to the point of malnourishment.
Click to expand...

This does sound a little like your description of the sound you are getting. I would certainly expect the Lavardin to sound quite different to the AN amps your speakers are usually found with.
 
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yes ...try different cable ...but not generic 78strand in my humble opinion ..its equally as bad as the dnm ...will give a big fat blurred sound in my experience ..

you could try making your own tnt web site has a number of good recipes that work well [system dependant as always ]

or pm for something more exotic using enamell wire [wire wrap] and vibration managment [rubber hose! ]...

if your unable to build your own then van damn is better than qed ...

but you don't need to throw money at the problem ...

I'd second the behringer ....if you close to me I can get my hands on one ...but they take a lot of working out to get the best ..

you don't say what you have the gear sat on ..this can make a very big difference ...and should not be neglected either
 
Speaker room interface is 90% of the sound. Cables make as little as no difference unless they are highly inductive like the Dnm or highly capacitive like twisted cat5.
 
sq225917 said:
Speaker room interface is 90% of the sound. Cables make as little as no difference unless they are highly inductive like the Dnm or highly capacitive like twisted cat5.
Click to expand...

you forgot imo ...thats in your opinion !

in my experience things can be different ...don't be so quick to diss an idea that you don't like ..

other people are allowed to have and express ideas of ther own
 
Not my opinion Pete, just what is objectively provable via measurement and double blind tests. People are perfectly able to believe whatever fanciful notions they like, but I'll not be promoting them, just like I'll not knocking on people's front door and telling them all about religion.

You are welcome to try and sell people whatever notions you like, just don't expect everyone else to follow suit.
 
glenda said:
Hi folks,

The sound is , how can I put it , thin .
Click to expand...

Hi Tony, this may be all a bit late. but some other things you could try (not all at once mind!) include:

* remove all power conditioning such as powerboards, filters, fancy mains cables and just use the leads the kit came with plugged into wall sockets, or a standard cheapie unfiltered powerboard if no socket is nearby.

* remove any tweaks you may have installed over the years. What may have worked with your old kit may not suit new.

If the above makes no significant difference, then.

* As mentioned just use some middle of the road speaker cables and i/cs. Avoid fancy/expensive/unusual designs.

If the fundamental problems remain, onto plan C!

* move setup to a different room (preferably different construction, size and furnishings) just to see if it sounds the same. Better still, take it to a friends place to try it out! Just make sure the missus is out.....

If you are getting nowhere, then it is time to start box-swapping.

* swap Lavardin amp with something else that you know (assuming you have access to your old kit or maybe other's kit). Audio Note love valves, so try a valve amp.

* re-install Lavardin amp and then swap speakers with some others that you know the sound of.

My gut feel is that it is unlikely to be the speakers. Audio Note are certainly not thin. Thin does however describe the sound of a Lavardin system I have heard. Wish I could remember what speakers were being used. I am not saying this is a Lavardin trait, just don't assume the amp speaker match is ideal.

Hope this is of help,
 
gkold67 said:
Hi Tony, this may be all a bit late. but some other things you could try (not all at once mind!) include:

Hi there,

not at all late and thanks for the comprehensive reply . I will work through these suggestions when i have some spare time at the weekend ( and no wife !).

I have been tinkering wit the set up as suggested in earlier posts - changing the cable and moving the speaker position has resulted in some improvement in the sound . I haven't attempted any changes in the last week but the sound is still improving gradually . I'm wondering if the speakers are fully run in as the guy I bought them from is a bit of a box swapper.

The sound still remains short of my expectations so I'll try out your suggestions and then work out what to do next.

Thanks again

Tony
Click to expand...
 
Glenda, it's 99% likely to be your room and the speaker position relative to your seated position, and nowt else.
 
I'd say that there's a 100% chance that a large part of the thinness in the OP's system is down to the speakers.

Here's the Stereophile measured frequency response for the Audio Note AN-E Lexus speakers:
506ANEfig3.jpg

506ANEfig4.jpg


This is the sort of frequency response I'd expect from 8" mid/bass cones in a medium sized ported box.

This is just another example of Hoffman's Iron Law. With the AN's you get small size and medium to highish efficiency with no true bass extension. Thin thin thin.

BTW interesting that Audio Note claimed 98db efficiency whilst Stereophile measured them as 93db efficient.


A WT Amadeus / Meridian 506.20 / ANe SPE HE would be a dream system for me too. But in my case it would be a nightmare dream as I prefer direct or idler drives to belt drive tt's, SET amps in the midrange to solid state, big speakers to little ones.
 
When I moved house my system went from sounding great to awful overnight. As I've added furniture and moved things about the sound has improved a great deal to the point is now sounds better than ever, admittedly I bought a new transport. Its a shame you didn't hear this system in your old house for comparison.
 

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