ra asa outcome

[penance]

If I have the right person, has Russ Andrews hired a manufacturer of hifi mains related products to provide independant evidence that these products have effect?

That about sums it up.

For the record, I use some expensive (to me) mains and speaker cables along with IC's. That is my choice as I felt it a worthwhile upgrade. I am very aware of the lack of supporting evidence for such items but felt it did help my kit.

To that extent I feel that any claim by a cable manufacturer should be backed up with solid unbiased evidence. Fine for adverts to use testimonials of customers but claiming something as a fact should have solid evidence behind it.

We have seen no such evidence in this thread, just one mains/cable tweaker supporting another, with one as yet unsubstantiated peer review?
IMO this kind of behaviour does absolutely nothing to help the cause of cable suppliers whether they be genuine or not.

 

[DavidF]

That about sums it up.

For the record, I use some expensive (to me) mains and speaker cables along with IC's. That is my choice as I felt it a worthwhile upgrade. I am very aware of the lack of supporting evidence for such items but felt it did help my kit.

To that extent I feel that any claim by a cable manufacturer should be backed up with solid unbiased evidence. Fine for adverts to use testimonials of customers but claiming something as a fact should have solid evidence behind it.

We have seen no such evidence in this thread, just one mains/cable tweaker supporting another, with one as yet unsubstantiated peer review?
IMO this kind of behaviour does absolutely nothing to help the cause of cable suppliers whether they be genuine or not.

I'm not really trying to help any one...

All I was trying to do as to make balanced judgement on the subject against the accusation that all such matter is "foo".

When I tried (Zanash's) mains cable it made a subtle.... but definite .....improvement.

 

[The Devil]

I'm not really trying to help any one...

All I was trying to do as to make balanced judgement on the subject against the accusation that all such matter is "foo".

When I tried (Zanash's) mains cable it made a subtle.... but definite .....improvement.

Yes, but you're the sort of person who'd believe there are fairies at the bottom of your garden, if someone told you that there definitely were.

 

[Emeritus]

ISo they are searching for an explanation for a phenomenon which almost certainly doesn't exist in the first place.

Almost?

You are calling into question BD's findings without providing scientific evidence with which to explain why he is wrong.
'Its duff' is hardly robust. For someone who frequently berates people for being unwilling or unable to back up opinions with evidence you seem remarkably reluctant.

 

[The Devil]

Almost?

You are calling into question BD's findings without providing scientific evidence with which to explain why he is wrong.
'Its duff' is hardly robust. For someone who frequently berates people for being unwilling or unable to back up opinions with evidence you seem remarkably reluctant.

Father Christmas almost certainly doesn't exist, but we keep an open mind. There is no objective evidence that any mains cable makes any audible difference to any hi-fi system. The research methodology is silly, because they are seeking to explain a phenomenon for which there is no evidence. If they can show that the phenomenon does exist, then they can start looking for an explanation as to why it exists. But they haven't.

I hope that is clear.

 

[penance]

I'm not really trying to help any one...

All I was trying to do as to make balanced judgement on the subject against the accusation that all such matter is "foo".

When I tried (Zanash's) mains cable it made a subtle.... but definite .....improvement.

I am not accusing you of anything David, far from it.
All I can say is that a few years experience on forums has shown me it is better to say nothing in these cases.

I work in an area where all my experience tells me these things should not be happening but my ears sometimes tell me otherwise.

My opinion, what the hell it cost me and not anyone else and so does them no harm.

 

[Emeritus]

I hope that is clear.

Once upon a time there was no scientific explanation for gravity. Thus until someone explained it, it wasn't there. Oh how we laughed.

Thanks for your time.

 

[lbr]

If I have the right person, has Russ Andrews hired a manufacturer of hifi mains related products to provide independant evidence that these products have effect?

 

[The Devil]

Once upon a time there was no scientific explanation for gravity. Thus until someone explained it, it wasn't there. Oh how we laughed.

Thanks for your time.

My time's obviously wasted on you. There is very good evidence that gravity exists.

There's no evidence at all that mains cables make any difference. Please understand before one of us dies.

 

[lbr]

In fairness to RA, the fact that he offers a money back deal on his products goes a long way to negating any need to provide evidence that his products have an audible effect. If you find that they don't , or you suspect that any perceived difference is fatuous, then send them back - no harm, no foul.

Even if he did provide such evidence, it would be of very limited value to the individual potential purchaser of his products - either you find they work for you in your system or you find they don't. Knowing that other people heard a difference wouldn't make buying cables which have no effect that you can discern any less daft.

Mr Hansen's post strikes me as clear, reasoned and reasonable. The ASA criticised RA for a lack of evidence of a technical effect and this appears to be (having not read any of it) the specific point that RA have sought to address. I don't see why it should be incumbent on RA (any more than any other purveyor, purchaser or naysayer) to prove audible differences.

Now, as for lazy and incompetent journalism...

 

[Emeritus]

My time's obviously wasted on you. There is very good evidence that gravity exists.

You quoted selectively. Of course there is, but until it was explained, anyone who believed in it would have been sniggered at.

There's no evidence at all that mains cables make any difference. Please understand before one of us dies

I have never postulated that there is any evidence. I merely prefer not to belittle those who can hear a difference. You just assert that they are WRONG and they CAN'T because it hasn't been PROVED.

Not planning to die just yet. My doctor tells me that I am in good health, but what would he know.

Kindest.

 

[The Devil]

You quoted selectively. Of course there is, but until it was explained, anyone who believed in it would have been sniggered at.

I quoted your entire post, not selectively.

Erm. Gravity hasn't been "explained". There is a theory but no "explanation". But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and no sniggering necessary. People might snigger if you denied that gravity existed.

The explanation for why people think they hear differences in mains cables is the placebo effect - they expect to, so they do. There has never been any objective difference shown.

 

[Emeritus]

My apologies. I meant that you commented on only the latter half, without acknowledging the first.

 

[D Louth 77]

I quoted your entire post, not selectively.

Erm. Gravity hasn't been "explained". There is a theory but no "explanation". But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and no sniggering necessary. People might snigger if you denied that gravity existed.

The explanation for why people think they hear differences in mains cables is the placebo effect - they expect to, so they do. There has never been any objective difference shown.

Same old same old hey Devil you are like a broken record. Do you not have better things to do in your hospital in Paisley. I would have thought that the life and work demands of being a liver consultant would frankly keep you so tied up you would spend your valuable off time doing something more profitable like having a life or actually listening to music. instead you trot out the same old crap. You are so narrow in your point of view that frankly you might be better actually trying out the things you say you can't hear. You attack everyone who you think is wrong and frankly your truth from what I now know about you is frankly a bit limited. You are entitled to your view of course, but, well why do you have to be so nasty to everyone except your cronies on the forum. Why can't you come on and offer some discoveries some ways of enriching everyones listening pleasure instead of saying we are all deaf, deluded or suffering from your fave phrase "a placebo effect"

What ever happened to your nice side why did the devil (bub) take over? What happened to you James ? that makes you have ago at everyone. Why can't you be constructive instead of destructive...something you are most of the time. Of course nothing will ever be done about you on this forum, you seem to be free to attack everyone and their ideas as you please and are never moderated or so it seems IMHO.

Do you know I can't think of a single time you have ever contributed anything positive here, so why do you bother. Catch a grip of yourself, wise up and get the nice old James back. I understand you used to ( many years ago) be really helpful and have something other than negativity to offer. But maybe its to hard to be nice and constructive rather than be the devil and have, what more fun being nasty and destructive.

There you go said it now its off my chest. No doubt you will have me banned. You can say what you like but perhaps I can't. Someone needed to say this and all those (and there are many) who want to don't for some reason.

I always feel refreshed and up built by the majesty of the scenery in Scotland go for a walk in the hills/mountains and come back refreshed and NICE. You at least can go there easily and quickly, after all its on your door step.

D Louth

 

[SteveS1]

In fairness to RA, the fact that he offers a money back deal on his products goes a long way to negating any need to provide evidence that his products have an audible effect.

Yes, that's exactly why imo he would be better advised to leave it at that.

Steve

 

[DavidF]

Same old same old hey Devil you are like a broken record. Do you not have better things to do in your hospital in Paisley. I would have thought that the life and work demands of being a liver consultant would frankly keep you so tied up you would spend your valuable off time doing something more profitable like having a life or actually listening to music. instead you trot out the same old crap. You are so narrow in your point of view that frankly you might be better actually trying out the things you say you can't hear. You attack everyone who you think is wrong and frankly your truth from what I now know about you is frankly a bit limited. You are entitled to your view of course, but, well why do you have to be so nasty to everyone except your cronies on the forum. Why can't you come on and offer some discoveries some ways of enriching everyones listening pleasure instead of saying we are all deaf, deluded or suffering from your fave phrase "a placebo effect"

What ever happened to your nice side why did the devil (bub) take over? What happened to you James ? that makes you have ago at everyone. Why can't you be constructive instead of destructive...something you are most of the time. Of course nothing will ever be done about you on this forum, you seem to be free to attack everyone and their ideas as you please and are never moderated or so it seems IMHO.

Do you know I can't think of a single time you have ever contributed anything positive here, so why do you bother. Catch a grip of yourself, wise up and get the nice old James back. I understand you used to ( many years ago) be really helpful and have something other than negativity to offer. But maybe its to hard to be nice and constructive rather than be the devil and have, what more fun being nasty and destructive.

There you go said it now its off my chest.

...and I couldn't have done it any better myself.

Thankyou very much.

No doubt you will have me banned.

If so, I will probably go too.

There, there is a challenge for you!

If this is the conclusion, ZG will slow down even more than it has already.....

You can say what you like but perhaps I can't. Someone needed to say this and all those (and there are many) who want to don't for some reason.

hmmm....

I wonder why?

I always feel refreshed and up built by the majesty of the scenery in Scotland go for a walk in the hills/mountains and come back refreshed and NICE. You at least can go there easily and quickly, after all its on your door step.

D Louth

 

[Paul Ranson]

...and I couldn't have done it any better myself.

Why are you condoning a personal attack?

Paul

 

[DavidF]

Why are you condoning a personal attack?

Paul

I agree with what DL has written....don't you?

 

[The Devil]

Same old same old hey Devil you are like a broken record. Do you not have better things to do in your hospital in Paisley. I would have thought that the life and work demands of being a liver consultant would frankly keep you so tied up you would spend your valuable off time doing something more profitable like having a life or actually listening to music. instead you trot out the same old crap. You are so narrow in your point of view that frankly you might be better actually trying out the things you say you can't hear. You attack everyone who you think is wrong and frankly your truth from what I now know about you is frankly a bit limited. You are entitled to your view of course, but, well why do you have to be so nasty to everyone except your cronies on the forum. Why can't you come on and offer some discoveries some ways of enriching everyones listening pleasure instead of saying we are all deaf, deluded or suffering from your fave phrase "a placebo effect"

What ever happened to your nice side why did the devil (bub) take over? What happened to you James ? that makes you have ago at everyone. Why can't you be constructive instead of destructive...something you are most of the time. Of course nothing will ever be done about you on this forum, you seem to be free to attack everyone and their ideas as you please and are never moderated or so it seems IMHO.

Do you know I can't think of a single time you have ever contributed anything positive here, so why do you bother. Catch a grip of yourself, wise up and get the nice old James back. I understand you used to ( many years ago) be really helpful and have something other than negativity to offer. But maybe its to hard to be nice and constructive rather than be the devil and have, what more fun being nasty and destructive.

There you go said it now its off my chest. No doubt you will have me banned. You can say what you like but perhaps I can't. Someone needed to say this and all those (and there are many) who want to don't for some reason.

I always feel refreshed and up built by the majesty of the scenery in Scotland go for a walk in the hills/mountains and come back refreshed and NICE. You at least can go there easily and quickly, after all its on your door step.

D Louth

Hi,

This appears to be a very good example of a direct personal attack, which is what you seemed to be complaining about in the first place!

If you are having difficulty coping with my perfectly rational point of view about mains cables, and given that you describe yourself as a devout Christian, I would suggest a little prayer might make you feel better.

If there is a Patron Saint of Expensive but Totally Pointless Mains Cables and/or Meaningless Expenditure on Home Entertainment Equipment (Electronic), then he or she would be the ideal recipient.

 

[Paul Ranson]

I agree with what DL has written....don't you?

In this case, no.

But regardless it is inappropriate.

You believe that mains cables make a difference, why are you so down on people expressing a different opinion? Is it that that opinion is more based in fact and you have doubt?

FWIW you're welcome to come and try some cables in my system.

Paul