The F1 season 2006

[hifikrazy]

Personally, I've never understood the cult built up around Senna. A good, even a great, driver, yes, but a demigod no. Nigel Mansell once said wryly that, when Senna won, it was "Brilliant Brazilian wins again", but when Mansell won, it was "Mansell had a good car". Very odd.

Couldnt agree more. That same thing has always been true with Schumacher too. Fact is you cant win these days (and same has been true for quite some time) unless your car is competitive.

Mansell was an underrated driver by many. He should have been world champion in 86 but was very unlucky with that tyre blowout.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Mansell.

The stats don't back that up. He was soundly beaten by his team mate in '84, '85, '87 and 1990, and the only ones he really got the better of were an over the hill Patrese and Gerhard Berger.

He only beat Piquet in '86 by a point despite finishing two extra races. Not IMHO, the record of a great. He was quick and brave though.

 

[tones]

I certainly would never put Mansell among the greats, but he had guts - I believe the Italians called him "Il Leone" (the lion) when he drove for Ferrari. Remember that magnificent overtaking move on Senna in Hungary, when there were three cars abreast on the track? He also appeared to be very like Senna in one way - if you weren't 100% for him, you were considered 100% against him.

 

[Dev]

- if you weren't 100% for him, you were considered 100% against him.

This is something I've never been able to come to terms with with some of the "greats". If they are truly that good they don't need the whole world to be focused on them. Instead they should be able to compete on a level field with their team mates as well as the competition. The exception being the case where the championship depended on the team mates cooperation.

 

[hifikrazy]

I never said Mansell was great. I did say he was underrated. And i think we all know that stats dont tell a whole story, and looking at them, i certainly dont think he was soundly beaten in all of those seasons you listed. For example 9 points in 85 isnt a huge margin.

 

[Pino Spetzberg]

Its OK to say Mansell is a great you know - don't be intimidated by F1 snobs

Question is - if it is true that Schumi was pressed into announcing his retirement earlier than he would have liked because Ferrari signed Raikkonen as equal No 1 rather than No 2 - leaving Schumi less powerful within the team - will he take some time off and return with a different team ?
Michael has denied he was pressed into making an early decision saying Ferrari were very gracious, and he should know. Others are not convinced and link him to Team Mercedes ( post buy-out ), BMW or Red Bull.
Bernie thinks Renault.....:JPS:
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/formulaone/story/0,,1871681,00.html

 

[greg]

Pat Symonds wasn't too pleased on Tuesday, he was talking about Ferrari's scuppering of Alonso's qual lap unhappily. So the penalty stood, all the other teams agreed it was unfair and then later the FIA announced to all the team's technical directors that such complaints would no longer be acceptable. Flav's comments about a fixed season seem to to be reasonable IMO.

 

[Dev]

Flav's comments about a fixed season seem to to be reasonable IMO.

Regardless of whether it's true or not, actually saying that on live TV was a bit stupid IMO. Someone in his position needs to be a bit more diplomatic. I understand he was quite quick to do a u turn when he calm down (or realised what he had said).

 

[greg]

I agree it was rather extreme to actually say what he said given his position, though politically he has drawn attention to his point with little or no real consequence so far. I rather admire his candour.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Flav's comments about a fixed season seem to to be reasonable IMO.

How do you reconcile Monaco and Hungary with the popular conspiracy theory Greg?

Truth is, Alonso has lost it, he's being exposed for the little kid he is. Some of his recent behavior must have made all at Ferrari chuckle. It's only strengthened the case for Ferrari taking KR over him.

I would say that the experience at management level that Ferrari have, has enabled them to play the rule book to their advantage this year. But all they have done is ask for the FIA to enforce the letter of the law. I doubt there's another outfit on the pit lane that would have been so clever.

 

[tones]

Truth is, Alonso has lost it, he's being exposed for the little kid he is.

I guess that's a thing we forget about the children that are the modern sporting heroes - they can do one thing supremely well, but otherwise they are flawed human beings like all the rest of us. They are in the unfortunate position that their otherwise ordinary lack of wisdom is exposed to the spotlight of publicity.

 

[hifikrazy]

How do you reconcile Monaco and Hungary with the popular conspiracy theory Greg?

Truth is, Alonso has lost it, he's being exposed for the little kid he is. Some of his recent behavior must have made all at Ferrari chuckle. It's only strengthened the case for Ferrari taking KR over him.

I would say that the experience at management level that Ferrari have, has enabled them to play the rule book to their advantage this year. But all they have done is ask for the FIA to enforce the letter of the law. I doubt there's another outfit on the pit lane that would have been so clever.

Well for starters i think that Michael's disgraceful antics at monaco would probably have earnt someone else a lot harsher penalty than he recieved. What you call clever i call cheating

Isnt it funny how people view things differently. Ive always viewed Michael as the little kid who must win at all costs, by driving into people etc.

If the FIA had enforced the letter of the law there would have been no penalty, but thats just my view. Even if Massa was impeded, it looks v.likely that he was only able to get close enough to be impeded because he received a tow. And even if he was impeded then it likely did Schumacher a favour, as it would mean Massa wouldnt be in front of him again on the grid!

 

[greg]

Truth is, Alonso has lost it, he's being exposed for the little kid he is.

Nah, I don't think so. Stats show that had he started in 5th (and had his engine not blown up ) due to their clever fuel strategy he would have finished in first around 15 seconds ahead.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Well for starters i think that Michael's disgraceful antics at monaco would probably have earnt someone else a lot harsher penalty than he recieved.

He was penalised on the interpretration of the telemetry data. This showed the performance of the car at Rascasse was different to preceding laps.

If the FIA had enforced the letter of the law there would have been no penalty, but thats just my view. Even if Massa was impeded, it looks v.likely that he was only able to get close enough to be impeded because he received a tow.

FA was penalised on the interpretration of the telemetry data. This showed the performance of the Ferrari was different to preceding laps through Parabolica.

Do you see what I mean about applying the letter of the law?

FA's comments over the past six to eight weeks have IMO lacked class, as has his general behavior. Hungary was the first sign of the opening wounds. The FIA definately disadvantaged MS there.

The difference to me is that as the performance pendulum started to swing, Ferrari and MS pushed the advantage home with the mass damping issue and an increased work rate. FA and Renault appear by comparison to have been rattled.

IMHO, Ferrari and MS are giving Renault a masterclass in how to win titles. I do hope that sentence does not come back to haunt me!!!

 

[greg]

Truth is, Alonso has lost it, he's being exposed for the little kid he is. Some of his recent behavior must have made all at Ferrari chuckle. It's only strengthened the case for Ferrari taking KR over him.

FA was already signed for MM from the end of last season. I think he's now thinking he made a mistake given their current perforance.

I would say that the experience at management level that Ferrari have, has enabled them to play the rule book to their advantage this year. But all they have done is ask for the FIA to enforce the letter of the law. I doubt there's another outfit on the pit lane that would have been so clever.

To some extent that may be true, but it's interesting the FIA have now revised this policy regards other teams moaning about qual laps. The fact is when a team chooses to send its cars out is up to that team and you have to take the rough with the smooth. It's in the interests of the FIA for Ferrari and MS to win it and especially to favour them in Italy.

 

[Stereo Mic]

To some extent that may be true, but it's interesting the FIA have now revised this policy regards other teams moaning about qual laps. The fact is when a team chooses to send its cars out is up to that team and you have to take the rough with the smooth. It's in the interests of the FIA for Ferrari and MS to win it and especially to favour them in Italy.

Greg, I think the FIA has effectively issued a clarification because a loophole was exposed by the Ferrari complaint. In Italy they had to apply the rules. Very quick thinking by Ferrari as it cannot have been preplanned. The issue only arose because FA was late out on his second set.

FA was already signed for MM from the end of last season. I think he's now thinking he made a mistake given their current perforance.

I don't think he had a choice in all honesty. At the time Renault were non committal to F1 and I suspect you will eventually find out that the KR/Ferrari deal was put to bed over a year ago - leaving FA without options.

 

[greg]

At the time Renault were non committal to F1 and I suspect you will eventually find out that the KR/Ferrari deal was put to bed over a year ago - leaving FA without options.

Not what I was told by the horses mouth.

 

[Ian Wright]

"Nah, I don't think so. Stats show that had he started in 5th (and had his engine not blown up ) due to their clever fuel strategy he would have finished in first around 15 seconds ahead."

Too make that prediction you really need some predictive software or some very good analysis software.

Had ALO started from 5th (as he should have done) then he would have had a reasonable chance of winning the race (Michelin had the better tyre at this race).

And certainly I don't see any clever strategy with the fuel load as other teams did the same, e.g. MAS, BUT, KUB had very similar stop laps.

Ian


Ian

 

[Ian Wright]

"I don't think he had a choice in all honesty. At the time Renault were non committal to F1 and I suspect you will eventually find out that the KR/Ferrari deal was put to bed over a year ago - leaving FA without options." SM

Also at the time he signed McLaren had by far the fastest car and showed signs of domination in 2006. Then Adrian Newey left as did quite a few other senior technical people. And then Renault surprised us all by making the fastest car.

It looks to me as if he made a very good decision at the time.

Ian

 

[greg]

Too make that prediction you really need some predictive software or some very good analysis software.

I'm simply referring to Pat Symond's debriefing, quoting their (RF1's) simulation software.

Let's not get bogged down with the fact the car blew a piston.