The Real Kick Out Of Sound...

[Purite Audio]

It is true most studios these days are given speakers, and that the full range units are hardly used. the PMC's at Abbey road apparently are used to keep the doors open.
Horn loaded compression drivers simply produce less distortion , but they do require space.
I am hugely impresed you hear over 20khz though.

 

[robM]

It is true most studios these days are given speakers, and that the full range units are hardly used. the PMC's at Abbey road apparently are used to keep the doors open.
Horn loaded compression drivers simply produce less distortion , but they do require space.
I am hugely impresed you hear over 20khz though.

Well that's OK then as these days corruption rules! Anyway back when companies did not give things away (apart from B&W) ATC and Genelec were installing their monitors all around the world. The BBC bought many pairs of 50s and 100s. Fantasy use a mixture of ATC and smaller Dynaudio nearfields....etc etc etc.

Horn speakers 'may' produce less distortion -but obviously produce distortion of somekind, but then it's COMPLETELY different to what the engineers mixed on and therefore you'll never get close to what the engineers heard. I heard those big horns at Munich this year in the TW room and they sounded all 'nice and warm' but I didn't think for a millisecond they sounded better than my active ATC 150s. There was no 'slam' which you get with a snare drum, no real bass... yes there was lots of bass but it was pretty loose, flappy and 'horny'. I'll say it was clean but no cleaner than my ATCs.

The human hearing system on pure tones goes up to about 20Khz with some super humans up to 22khz and even 24khz, but that is pure tone. The harmonic content of a piano goes up to about 40Khz and many instruments produce harmonics up above that up to about 100khz. This 'content' adds to everything else in the spectrum to tell us what instrument is playing and even the manufacturer.

taken from Caltech research in 1997 by a friend/music aquaintance:

At least one member of each instrument family (strings, woodwinds, brass and percussion) produces energy to 40 kHz or above, and the spectra of some instruments reach this work's measurement limit of 102.4 kHz. Harmonics of muted trumpet extend to 80 kHz; violin and oboe, to above 40 kHz; and a cymbal crash was still strong at 100 kHz.

which is why vinyl stands a better chance at replay than CD.

 

[Purite Audio]

ATC's, Whest I can understand why you would want something to roll off the treble.

 

[robM]

ATC's, Whest I can understand why you would want something to roll off the treble.

That went right over my head

But look if you like the slow, warm fluffy sound of those big horns, then that's cool someone needs to

 

[Purite Audio]

I do admire the way ATC get the very best out of their components, their tweeter for example what does that cost £11.00? Yet with their implementation it sounds like at least £12.00's worth.

 

[nando]

TANNOY DUAL CONCENTRICS is what we used during the 70's nice they were.
nando.

 

[Legzr1]

Click,click,click,crackle,skate,click,click,click...

That's 4 songs gone - time to get up and change side.


Click,click,click,crackle,skate,click,click,click...


God knows what people ever saw in CD.

 

[robM]

I do admire the way ATC get the very best out of their components, their tweeter for example what does that cost £11.00? Yet with their implementation it sounds like at least £12.00's worth.

You can tell you're in the trade - quoting ex-VAT prices

I saw on the internet recently:
'how to make Cessaro Horn speakers from a 1970's lamp shade and some old wood'.

 

[nando]

Click,click,click,crackle,skate,click,click,click...

That's 4 songs gone - time to get up and change side.


Click,click,click,crackle,skate,click,click,click...


God knows what people ever saw in CD.



quote

sounds like a good cd to me,
nando.

quote,

 

[covkxw]

I tried to live with some world renowned, low distortion/coloured horn speaker that had 21st century technology drivers, costing £19K. They were low distortion, but not low enough for my tastes. I now live with ATC 150 Anniversaries. Very happy

 

[Purite Audio]

Rob you must mean the famous ATC 'soil pipe' B&Q's finest that Atc use in their designs . Keith really what were they?
Keith.

 

[D. Lundberg]

As for tracking distortion.... how about jitter and error correction with digital?

Jitter is hardly ever a problem with modern equipment. And what's wrong with error correction? Is it preferable to have no correction at all (in the rare cases where it is needed) like on vinyl?
And I don't see how those could in any way be seen on same scale as tracking/inner groove distortion, artefacts (wow, flutter, pops, clicks), horrible channel separation, poor SNR, and other serious problems with vinyl playback.

The human hearing system on pure tones goes up to about 20Khz with some super humans up to 22khz and even 24khz, but that is pure tone.

No, it is every tone (both fundamentals and overtones). And high frequency perception will get worse as you get older, so it's usually only small children who hear up to 20kHz.

It's true that many instruments produce high frequency content, but that content is mostly gone when the sound reaches your ears (where the rest of it will get filtered out).

which is why vinyl stands a better chance at replay than CD.

Vinyl rarely contains anything (except noise) above 20kHz. And if a digital delay was used (as on the majority of records cut in the last 30 years) the signal is brick wall filtered as well.
High frequency content is also lost every time you play the record.

There is very little evidence that you need content above 20kHz, and if you do there is only one format that can provide clean recording and reproduction of those frequencies: PCM with high sample rate.

 

[robM]

There is very little evidence that you need content above 20kHz, and if you do there is only one format that can provide clean recording and reproduction of those frequencies: PCM with high sample rate.

I love the way you use 'hardly'

Jitter is hardly ever a problem with modern equipment

meaning that it is sometimes a problem and....

And what's wrong with error correction?

what's right with filling in digits of missing information with non-musical digits?

Vinyl rarely contains anything

meaning that it does sometimes.

I do like this one though....

but that content is mostly gone when the sound reaches your ears

at what distance?

There is very little evidence that you need content above 20kHz

what is the whole point behind hi-rez then, if not to push the bandwidth boundary as well?

and if you do there is only one format that can provide clean recording and reproduction of those frequencies: PCM with high sample rate.

I think you'll find that manufacturers are trying to get away from PCM as it's pretty hopeless. DSD is so much better than PCM it's a joke.

Oh and you forgot to add vinyl to that last bit

 

[Legzr1]

Vinyl had it's chance (up to the late 70's).

Things have moved on from dragging some rare jewel across a piece of plastic (of widely varying quality).

There is still a place for vinyl of course - just as there's still a place for steam-powered trains.

There's a reason steam power is a dead technology but strange men in long macs wearing fetching facial hair still enjoy them.

 

[robM]

Vinyl had it's chance (up to the late 70's).

Things have moved on from dragging some rare jewel across a piece of plastic (of widely varying quality).

There is still a place for vinyl of course - just as there's still a place for steam-powered trains.

There's a reason steam power is a dead technology but strange men in long macs wearing fetching facial hair still enjoy them.

I like it....but CD also had it's chance and is now officially DEAD.
Check out the official 2008 sales figures for CD..ha ha ha. Vinyl on the other hand is still alive and kicking and nicely thank you.
Sales are on the up. More turntables are being sold (more than can be said for the silver disc), I like MANY find it really easy picking up new vinyl of new bands, and new vinyl of older bands. Most bands now will also press vinyl..... so there blows your theory! Whereas CD with it's crappy, limited 16 bit PCM, paint by numbers format is being taken over by a gaming console sound system

 

[Legzr1]

I like it....but CD also had it's chance and is now officially DEAD.

Says who?

You?

I like it....but CD also had it's chance and is now officially DEAD.
Check out the official 2008 sales figures for CD..ha ha ha.

Physical album sales fell 20 percent to 362.6 million

From here :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/01/2008-album-sales-plunged_n_154641.html

362,000,000.

Yep - CD's are fooked

Vinyl on the other hand is still alive and kicking and nicely thank you.

I heard that.

Sales are up 50% this year alone.

Quote :

"An old man came back three weeks later and bought ANOTHER album"

so there blows your theory!

What theory?





To be honest,I love the sound of that smack,cracle and pop but only doused in milk of a morning :MILD:

Vinyl is old-hat for a relatively minute market - i'm pleased they're still available but if you look hard enough i'm sure you can find parafin lamps too

 

[nando]

don't get wrong, my wife is getting mature, she is just like wine she gets better with time, i close my case,
nando.

 

[Purite Audio]

Rob M do you make phono stages for a living perchance?

 

[nando]

p.s so does vinyl, furthe more there is a big growing market for vinyl over in the u.k and japan spain , etc.
nando.

 

[nando]

quote

Says who?

You?






Physical album sales fell 20 percent to 362.6 million

From here :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/01/2008-album-sales-plunged_n_154641.html

362,000,000.

Yep - CD's are fooked




I heard that.

Sales are up 50% this year alone.

Quote :

"An old man came back three weeks later and bought ANOTHER album"




What theory?





To be honest,I love the sound of that smack,cracle and pop but only doused in milk of a morning :MILD:

Vinyl is old-hat for a relatively minute market - i'm pleased they're still available but if you look hard enough i'm sure you can find parafin lamps too

must be the wrong milk,
nando.