Just thought I'd add a bit,I changed the interconnect between power amp and pre with Zanash auag and was impressed with the results,interconnects between rest of stuff is all JPS and I have not found the need or anything much better. Recent speaker cable change was a big difference.Bought some Zu Wax cables and the soundstage grew dramatically,so much so that when a friend visited he aked what I had changed.Prior to the installation you really had to be seated to enjoy the sound.When you stood up and walked towards the speakers the sound stage diminished now it appears to have much more air / space . These are definitely worth a try .
what positive effects have cables had on your personal system..
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RobHolt
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You know, I read stuff on here like 'soundstage grew dramatically' or 'more height and width' and 'veils lifted' and I despair.
None of these things can be influenced by cable choice in the vast majority of cases. Fashion, mythology and sales pitch are responsible for what I'm sure are otherwise quite rational people completely losing their marbles.
The situation is so bad at the moment that the number of people who's opinions I would trust on audio doesn't exceed single figures, both on ZG and the other audio sites combined.
None of these things can be influenced by cable choice in the vast majority of cases. Fashion, mythology and sales pitch are responsible for what I'm sure are otherwise quite rational people completely losing their marbles.
The situation is so bad at the moment that the number of people who's opinions I would trust on audio doesn't exceed single figures, both on ZG and the other audio sites combined.
Rob,
I wouldn't dream of trying to turn things into an argument with you as I have a LOT of respect for your opinion, after all my source and speakers are a direct result of listening to your kit.
Having said that, whilst I don't have a problem with your personal level of skepticism, I feel a little let down when you effectively infer that I'm losing it completely.
Can't we simply put it down to a matter of different opinions? I think it makes a difference, whilst you don't. I don't see that as being different to say someone prefering Naim to another prefering MF.
I discovered the ubyte homebrew http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html
This was an amazing revelation. Clearly much nicer than Cat5e and miles better than the expensive bi wired stuff I got from Seveoaks Hifi before I got wise...
I have 5m of speaker cable so perhaps the need to shoot the complex and fairly high current signal over a long distance if where the Ubyte comes into its own. It uses both a single pure core and the copper shield shared to carry the signal. I suspect difference frequencies transmit best down the two.
I've also used it to make nice interconnects that beat all else I've tried.
I've made pairs for 2 hifi nut friends and both would not part with them.
For me they cleaned the bass and highs up a treat. For my pal they cleared his woolly bass problem up.
Cheap, if you can bother to make them.
This was an amazing revelation. Clearly much nicer than Cat5e and miles better than the expensive bi wired stuff I got from Seveoaks Hifi before I got wise...
I have 5m of speaker cable so perhaps the need to shoot the complex and fairly high current signal over a long distance if where the Ubyte comes into its own. It uses both a single pure core and the copper shield shared to carry the signal. I suspect difference frequencies transmit best down the two.
I've also used it to make nice interconnects that beat all else I've tried.
I've made pairs for 2 hifi nut friends and both would not part with them.
For me they cleaned the bass and highs up a treat. For my pal they cleared his woolly bass problem up.
Cheap, if you can bother to make them.
can someone explain this...
Out of bored/curiosity I decided to wire up some never-used speaker cable I have floating about called Summer Tribun 11AWG
http://www.thomann.de/gb/sommer_cable_tribun_240.htm?sid=c174ad71beecb9a896cfadc9ccbfe6cf
in comparison to my usual anticables I've noticed the sound is more veiled over the mid and highs but with greater bass. (I like the bass!).
My hifi sounds pretty much lifeless now , a large muddy mess of noise comming out of the speakers with no image or instrument seperation to speak of.
If cables are cables and any reasonably high gauge OFC wire will do , how come this stuff sounds like shite ?
is it because the cable isnt run in (ha ha)
Out of bored/curiosity I decided to wire up some never-used speaker cable I have floating about called Summer Tribun 11AWG
http://www.thomann.de/gb/sommer_cable_tribun_240.htm?sid=c174ad71beecb9a896cfadc9ccbfe6cf
in comparison to my usual anticables I've noticed the sound is more veiled over the mid and highs but with greater bass. (I like the bass!).
My hifi sounds pretty much lifeless now , a large muddy mess of noise comming out of the speakers with no image or instrument seperation to speak of.
If cables are cables and any reasonably high gauge OFC wire will do , how come this stuff sounds like shite ?
is it because the cable isnt run in (ha ha)
Rob, Keep despairing
I have noticed apparent soundstage changes when I change speaker cable and seemingly improved detail or reduced treble hash when changing IC's. I have used this to tailor my system a little and recommend people try for themselves.
Andy
I have noticed apparent soundstage changes when I change speaker cable and seemingly improved detail or reduced treble hash when changing IC's. I have used this to tailor my system a little and recommend people try for themselves.
Andy
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I couldn't agree more Rob. Sadly it will it seems remain the case until people are prepared to listen with their ears rather than relying on all of their senses together. It's amazing how difficult it is to hear that huge soundstage depth when one isn't aware of what one is listening to. Still, it seems many people prefer not to put their beliefs to the test.
Fox said:
I'd disagree Fox. If you listen, under controlled conditions, and consistently prefer something, then it is better for you. The problem is actually isolating your hearing from all the other distractions that influence our judgement. Floyd Toole's studies show us that when relying soley on our hearing, we tend to prefer low distortion products with neutral frequency responses. Not really that surprising I guess.
SM , have you set your hifi up so you get perfect imaging and then changed the speaker cable ?
im not talking about some half arsed speaker/you triangle attempt here. Im talking really sat through 3 hours of pulling speakers out , measuring and listening so no music actually sounds like its comming from the speakers and everything is pin pointed focused with eyes open or shut, the vocals sit in the air infront of you etc.
im not talking about some half arsed speaker/you triangle attempt here. Im talking really sat through 3 hours of pulling speakers out , measuring and listening so no music actually sounds like its comming from the speakers and everything is pin pointed focused with eyes open or shut, the vocals sit in the air infront of you etc.
The only batch of data I ever got to analyse on this topic led to the conclusion that the 'between-judge' variation was significant, and the 'between-cable' effect was not. This is not to say that there is no 'between cable' variation ever to be detected, but that the subjective element in what is perceived as effect is a major stumbling block in detecting it.
"men often believe that they wish to believe" J.Ceasar, roughly quoted
Mind you, that is the case for all hifi, and four of us recently A/B'd two transports [a 'true' AS Transcend and an 'AS modded' Transcend) and all concluded (collusion'd) that the more expensive, better built transport had more coherent and natural sound, with greater soundstage beyond the speakers.
"men often believe that they wish to believe" J.Ceasar, roughly quoted
Mind you, that is the case for all hifi, and four of us recently A/B'd two transports [a 'true' AS Transcend and an 'AS modded' Transcend) and all concluded (collusion'd) that the more expensive, better built transport had more coherent and natural sound, with greater soundstage beyond the speakers.
This Friday evening at our Audio Syndrome club meeting we had the owner of "My Cables" perform a demo of his ICs MAC Soundpipes and mains cord. The list price of both were $130US. He makes cables with copper, silver or paldium [Reference]conductors in a air dielectric.
When we inserted the silver cable the members were taken back in the inprovement in sound. The bass was tighter with more authority and the top end was less Hi fi sounding. There was an overall improvement. The mains cord created a quieter background which allowed more information to shine thriugh. All in all a well made cable that presents an easy to listen to sound.
IMO this company is one of the real deals in audio. They are designed with measurements as required and listening to. How refreshing. The price is fair and reasonable as well. www.myaudiocables.com give em a run their well worth it.
rollo
When we inserted the silver cable the members were taken back in the inprovement in sound. The bass was tighter with more authority and the top end was less Hi fi sounding. There was an overall improvement. The mains cord created a quieter background which allowed more information to shine thriugh. All in all a well made cable that presents an easy to listen to sound.
IMO this company is one of the real deals in audio. They are designed with measurements as required and listening to. How refreshing. The price is fair and reasonable as well. www.myaudiocables.com give em a run their well worth it.
rollo
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What a shame they don't publish the measurements. Indeed what a shame no cable manufacturer does. Can you imagine amplifiers and speakers being sold without technical specifications? Wierd...
'Air dielectric' and 'mains cord' sound like a life changing combination.
Paul
Paul
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Once upon a time yes, but if that's your game (rather than enjoying music IME), then you would be better off buying one of Simon's Behringers or a used Tact RCS2.0. Real quantifiable differences at your fingertips.
I'm not saying that the noise of erroneous/spurious subjective judgement will always overwhelm objective differences, nor that the more expensive always wins out.
but if you can sell on your more expensive cables and buy more music ...
They would be happy to give you their measurements. A very open and honest gentleman. I believe Kimber publishes their specs. Its been a long time since I looked. Check out his wares SM and give us your opinion. Be nice now, we like you better that way.
rollo
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I'd be interested to see the full data.
As Dunlavy point out
Do you think he used them for the Palladiums?
Kimber don't publish there LR characteristics. None of them do. Quite an oversight when you think what they do publish...
As Dunlavy point out
Do you think he used them for the Palladiums?
Kimber don't publish there LR characteristics. None of them do. Quite an oversight when you think what they do publish...
Paulie, paulie, paulie life changing No. System changing YES.
Actually they polish the conductors clean with DeToxit and place in a oversized Teflon tube. The mains cord is a 6 Ga standed copper with teflon Dielectric. The conductors are braided like a woman braids her hair. Really dosn't matter to me the engineering end or design philosophy. Just the end result. In this case IMO job well done. Bang for the buck. Affective and priced fairly.
rollo
Not quite sure. I only became familiar with them a couple of days ago.
You are 100% correct in saying the specs including LCR should be available and published. IMO the impedance ,cap, etc is required to decide which cable will synergize with your impedance issues and so on. I always felt manfs of components should recco the electrical characteristics of a cable to be used. They engineer or select the hook up wire for design reasons why not the ICs and speaker cable. A pet peeve of mine.
Any input, thanks.
rollo