what positive effects have cables had on your personal system..

[Czechchris]

This thread is purely for people to express their positive views that cable s have made to their system.

Upgrading my speaker cable to Isolda, and i/c's to Tounshend DCT300 improved the 'realism' of the electronically produced sounds I was listening to. Krystal Kables mains leads and trailing socket all contibuted to greater clarity, and made my listening experience even more enjoyable. Looking back, I realise that I was missing out on a lot.

 

[banpe2006]

rob holt and S mic...As you must have read the opening post of this thread, I know that you are aware that the theme of this thread was to let people exchange positive views about cables that they had tried / tested. I started this thread to specifically gauge that response - and to stay away from arguments as to whether cables work or not....I have no interest, as to whether people have an opinion on whether cables work or not. That is why I specifically stated that those who couldnt contribute should start / finish their own threads. How hard can this be? Either argue on your own thread, but please dont try and taint this thread with negativity , as the reason I posted it in the first place is simply to ask others about their positive experiences. If I wished to post a debate about cables working , I would have said this. Please either post about such experiences, or not at all. You could start your own thread titled " any negative experiences regarding the use of speaker cables or interconnects?" Im fairly sure that the majority here would respect your opinions and not try to sabotage / spoil your findings. They would let you get on with it - much as I wish you two would let me / us.

 

[Stereo Mic]

I've given you examples of what i thought were positive experiences similar to the ones you are claiming. I've also pointed out what happened when I tested those observations. I've also mentioned just how positive adding a long Profigold interconnect was. How much positivity do you crave?

 

[banpe2006]

More than you seem to be able to offer im afraid. I grant you that you did start positively, and ill admit that you have been provoked, but I really dont wish to tune into to ZG again, for an all out war about cables SM...it is tedious. That is by all parties, not just you. Just wish to excange notes, as it were and am trying to get away from rubbishing peoples experiences ( be them "right" or "wrong" - though i think its a hard task to tell someone their experiences are "wrong" anyway) just thinking out loud.

 

[Wickfut]

Once upon a time yes, but if that's your game (rather than enjoying music IME), then you would be better off buying one of Simon's Behringers or a used Tact RCS2.0. Real quantifiable differences at your fingertips.

if what is my game ? setting my hifi up correctly so I hear the full benefit of it ?

also sorry mate but an eq doesnt sort out imaging and throwing a 200 quid toy eq into my hifi isnt high up on my wants list

face it , you havent really tried to see if changing an IC can alter a stereo image have you

 

[RobHolt]

This is all well and good, were ZG and other fora closed clubs full of experienced audio nerds, set in their ways and interested in talking amongst themselves.
Thankfully there is new blood trickling into the audio industry and hobby and those folk turn up on audio sites such as this looking for advice. It is primarily for their benefit that I (and I'm sure SM) bothers to put a counter argument to some of the nonsense that gets passed off as fact or genuine experience. The 'real' audio industry is already on it's arse and while the industry and hobby is dominated by those putting magic before science there is little prospect for recovery. So, in answer to your question, no I won't go away because an important job remains to be done.

rob holt and S mic...As you must have read the opening post of this thread, I know that you are aware that the theme of this thread was to let people exchange positive views about cables that they had tried / tested. I started this thread to specifically gauge that response - and to stay away from arguments as to whether cables work or not....I have no interest, as to whether people have an opinion on whether cables work or not. That is why I specifically stated that those who couldnt contribute should start / finish their own threads. How hard can this be? Either argue on your own thread, but please dont try and taint this thread with negativity , as the reason I posted it in the first place is simply to ask others about their positive experiences. If I wished to post a debate about cables working , I would have said this. Please either post about such experiences, or not at all. You could start your own thread titled " any negative experiences regarding the use of speaker cables or interconnects?" Im fairly sure that the majority here would respect your opinions and not try to sabotage / spoil your findings. They would let you get on with it - much as I wish you two would let me / us.

 

[Paul Ranson]

life changing No. System changing YES.

You miss my point. Bodgery with mains cables can make you dead. These have construction standards for a reason.

Paul

 

[RobHolt]

Can't we simply put it down to a matter of different opinions? I think it makes a difference, whilst you don't. I don't see that as being different to say someone prefering Naim to another prefering MF.

Hi Mike,

I can measure differences between MF and Naim amps and in some cases that is audible.
Give me a shielded twisted pair of 0.5mm copper conductor interconnects and same cable with silver conductors and I can show you nothing - *zilch. Moreover, under blind testing I'm certain you couldn't identify the cables and have performed similar tests enough times to have 100% confidence in that view.


* A tiny drop in resistance for the silver bringing no Measurable or audible benefit to the application.

 

[banpe2006]

You may be right rob, but it sounds to me , as if those who have been "converted" now need to ram their findings down the throat of everyone else. It doesnt appear to happen the other way around. I also dont believe for one minute that yours and Smics reasons for arguing the toss on this thread, is for the benefit of newcomers to the forum....its to get everyone to agree with your views! the question was raised in good spirits and with a specific response required. you stepped in to say that soundstage etc was all rubbish and that you wouldnt value the opinion of many on the forum. this says that you and SM are indeed, in the minority. if not with your views, then with your approach.

 

[George Sallit]

If anyone is interested and goes to the Virtual Dynamics cable site there is a summary of a report from the University of Ottowa where they found measurable differences (and improvements) by replacing a bog standard mains cables with a specialised one. Whether these differences are audible is another issue. No bloody LCR though.

 

[RobHolt]

I also dont believe for one minute that yours and Smics reasons for arguing the toss on this thread, is for the benefit of newcomers to the forum....its to get everyone to agree with your views!

Ok, believe what you will but I truly think that attempting to convert the hardened cable tweakers here is a lost cause.
I mean, does it ever happen?
The only way this might be achieved is via a blind dem under controlled conditions. I've offered to assist with this in the past on several occasions with precisely zero interest shown.

This subject isn't about to go away any year soon so I'd expect both sides to continue banging their drum. As for pushing the anti cable arguments down peoples throats, well to an extent this is a necessary response to a multi million $ industry selling goods for which there is no science to show any benefit for the increased expenditure.
We have common sense verses the cable cash cow IMO.

 

[Stereo Mic]

if what is my game ? setting my hifi up correctly so I hear the full benefit of it ?

If you are that concerned about the secondary qualities of your system is what I mean. And I can assure you that the room will play vastly more of a part in proceedings than any little interconnect you care to mention. After the room, the loudspeaker and it's crossover will influence image quality most. Then interestingly tone controls. Oh and the position of the rear wall - again a psychoacoustic phenomenon that moves the depth plane in the minds eye IME.

also sorry mate but an eq doesnt sort out imaging and throwing a 200 quid toy eq into my hifi isnt high up on my wants list

Now you see here you show your inexperience (no offence intended). Are you familiar with the way in which the Tact for instance time aligns drive units at the listening position precisely? It sounds as if you are not because if there is one thing they are good for it's imaging. Not some crappy audiophile overlay you understand, but the recreation of the recorded acoustic with less phase errors introduced by the room. Question. Balance control? Should it be a level adjustment or delay adjustment for optimum image recreation? If you did play with a digital box of tricks you would come to understand the relationship of frequency and energy distribution to image depth and space. You'd also probably hear real imaging for the first time. All IME of course.

face it , you havent really tried to see if changing an IC can alter a stereo image have you

I think you would be surprised how much I have done. I think you would be surprised at the impact on perceived depth of depressing the presence region, of the impact on bottom end pitch resolution of adding extra top octave energy. I bet you would be surprised if you tried your interconnect and imaging trick blind...but you don't want to so I won't push you on the subject.

 

[DavidF]

rob holt and S mic...As you must have read the opening post of this thread, I know that you are aware that the theme of this thread was to let people exchange positive views about cables that they had tried / tested. I started this thread to specifically gauge that response - and to stay away from arguments as to whether cables work or not....I have no interest, as to whether people have an opinion on whether cables work or not. That is why I specifically stated that those who couldnt contribute should start / finish their own threads. How hard can this be? Either argue on your own thread, but please dont try and taint this thread with negativity , as the reason I posted it in the first place is simply to ask others about their positive experiences. Im fairly sure that the majority here would respect your opinions and not try to sabotage / spoil your findings. They would let you get on with it - much as I wish you two would let me / us.

sensible post.....

.
Thankfully there is new blood trickling into the audio industry and hobby and those folk turn up on audio sites such as this looking for advice. It is primarily for their benefit that I (and I'm sure SM) bothers to put a counter argument to some of the nonsense that gets passed off as fact or genuine experience. So, in answer to your question, no I won't go away because an important job remains to be done.

...and if you don't mind my saying so is (already) very well documented gentlemen.

 

[anon_bb]

People want to be fleeced - its human nature. Even if cables do make a difference it is swamped by every other factor and money would invariably be better spent elsewhere unless you have a £250K system. The whole issue is irrelevant and is more related to laziness than anything else.

 

[Wickfut]

If you are that concerned about the secondary qualities of your system is what I mean. And I can assure you that the room will play vastly more of a part in proceedings than any little interconnect you care to mention. After the room, the loudspeaker and it's crossover will influence image quality most. Then interestingly tone controls. Oh and the position of the rear wall - again a psychoacoustic phenomenon that moves the depth plane in the minds eye IME.

thats all well and good but when I change cables it flies in the face of your gospel and removes the imaging qualities of my hifi.

I guess Im imagining it because you cant be wrong can you ?

Now you see here you show your inexperience (no offence intended). Are you familiar with the way in which the Tact for instance time aligns drive units at the listening position precisely? It sounds as if you are not because if there is one thing they are good for it's imaging. Not some crappy audiophile overlay you understand, but the recreation of the recorded acoustic with less phase errors introduced by the room. Question. Balance control? Should it be a level adjustment or delay adjustment for optimum image recreation? If you did play with a digital box of tricks you would come to understand the relationship of frequency and energy distribution to image depth and space. You'd also probably hear real imaging for the first time. All IME of course.

I didnt say the TACT was bad , I said I wouldnt put the behringer anywhere near my hifi. I have played with enough behringer gear in the past to know that its all shite thanks.

As for your description , it sounds like you have just read the "what is Qsound" website and decided to try and be a smart arse. Adding fake imaging and phase processing into a hifi system isnt something I wish to do either.

and guess what , I used to work in a recording studio and owned a well stocked home studio for years so I have plenty of experience thanks

I think you would be surprised how much I have done. I think you would be surprised at the impact on perceived depth of depressing the presence region, of the impact on bottom end pitch resolution of adding extra top octave energy. I bet you would be surprised if you tried your interconnect and imaging trick blind...but you don't want to so I won't push you on the subject.

what are you rattling on about here ? what has EQing out 300hz-1000hz to make the bottom sound fuller got to do with anything at all ?

As for the test

I have invited you around twice now , I have told you when I was available and told you my hifi. YOU are the one who offers up the test and has backed out , not me.

 

[Stereo Mic]

thats all well and good but when I change cables it flies in the face of your gospel and removes the imaging qualities of my hifi.

I guess Im imagining it because you cant be wrong can you ?

Well you'll never know as you refuse to take a proper blind test don't you?

As for your description , it sounds like you have just read the "what is Qsound" website and decided to try and be a smart arse. Adding fake imaging and phase processing into a hifi system isnt something I wish to do either.

Again your inexperience shows through. I'm not talking of adding fake imaging ( you are actually but that's another story). I'm talking about reproducing the recorded acoustic without it being destroyed by room reflections causing phase errors.

and guess what , I used to work in a recording studio and owned a well stocked home studio for years so I have plenty of experience thanks

Hmmm. I daren't ask what your job description was for fear of a banning.

And if you find my tone abrasive, look back at how you addressed me in the first place. I treat as I find.

 

[banpe2006]

stereo mic....where do you live? can you offer to do one of the cable tests at your place? ill be up for it. I cant believe that all these different people cant make a test. Perhaps its never been organised properly. i reckon theres too much hot air about "who asked who?" so....S Mic or Briz or Rob...are you prepared to host a cable testing session, when , where, and what are the requirements. Get as many there as you can.. Lets put theories to the test taht cables make no difference and invite 2 x judges....for example Zanash and Stereo Mic, to do the blind testing...it might be a fun day????? has anyone got the facility to host out of you 3? After all, you are the guys who oppose the fact that cables make a difference, so lets see it organised correctly.....Come on - once and for all....who is doing it and when? there are enough positive feedback remarks here to fill a small studio. Come on, no bullshit, just times , dates and venues.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Hi Mike,

I can measure differences between MF and Naim amps and in some cases that is audible.
Give me a shielded twisted pair of 0.5mm copper conductor interconnects and same cable with silver conductors and I can show you nothing - *zilch. Moreover, under blind testing I'm certain you couldn't identify the cables and have performed similar tests enough times to have 100% confidence in that view.


* A tiny drop in resistance for the silver bringing no Measurable or audible benefit to the application.

Just a question Rob. Is it possible that we simply don't know the right things to measure on a cable that will show whether it adds audible benefit or not.

Put it another way, could you explain why a Naim amplifier sounds different to an MF unit, just from the stated measurements listed on each respective manufacturers website? I'm guessing not.

 

[ADPully]

I have also always been up for a blind test as long as its a fair one. - But always felt that being asked to judge cables in an unfamiliar and probably solid state system for two minutes is not a fair blind test.

Thats why I think so far results with cables have been inconclusive thus favouring the the cables make no difference.
group.

Andy

 

[banpe2006]

Im looking forward to this meeting. Any news on the venue?