ZG & Trade posters - open discussion

Guys, please refrain from bringing arguments/discussions from other forums here. It is clearly against the AUP. I must admit I haven't had time to read the whole thread (and apologise in advance if the AUP has not been breached, in which case just ignore me:)) but will prune as necessary when I get a moment.
 
It needs pruning as it has gone off topic, yet again led by Mescalito. Funny how there are people who don't want this subject discussed so deliberately derail the thread.

Normal service will resume after the prune. Prunes are good for clearing out a blockage. :D

And may I say if this hasn't been noticed then you need to appoint an extra mod.
 
Mescalito said:
Richard,

My first post to this thread was #13. No mention of you at all.

I didn't actually follow the thread for a while, but when i did, guess what, you had got into a pissing match with someone.

I then responded in a fairly conciliatory way, but as per bloody usual, you just became increasingly obnoxious.

And, don't rely on Wikipaedia, check out the meaning of ad hominem with a publication of some authority.

Were I to attack your argument by attacking some unrelated aspect of your character, that would be ad hominem.

Were I to say "don't believe Richard's opinions concerning cables, he has BO", that would be ad hominem.

Chris
Click to expand...
You really are daft and just invent things to fit your needs. Where do I quote Wiki, it was quoted at me to show me I was wrong and I replied, and for a what you call a bad source, it explains it. You just have to have the brain power to read it and understand it.

I think you need to look at the literal translation from the latin that might help you.
 
RobHolt said:
I can't see anything wrong with discussing another forum in very general terms - that's no different to discussing a company or organisatoin.

The only real taboo is bringing an argument or dispute over form another forum because that usually gets very messy.

Forums develop personality, ethos, and have their own individual way of dealing with issues and topics. That all must be fair game for discussion IMO.
Click to expand...

I think thats a fair point as forums do generate revenue for dealers and manufacturers by its nature
 
Richard Dunn said:
Here we go again - ad hominem is perfectly simple and understandable in the case of a forum. Someone starts a thread, it has a subject, that subject is discussed. Then someone doesn't like what one of the posters says and attacks that person, that is ad hominem i.e. turning from the subject to the poster. We should be discussing facts concepts and ideas, not the people who have them or provide them. The only way to discuss a person is to make that person the subject of the thread.

That is also what it says on your link, but that link also refers to ad hominem in slander and legal court and other situations. It is the basis of *all* debate, and a forum is really a specialised debating club.
Click to expand...
Regardless of what it is called I think any personal attack on an individual is unacceptable, tho any strong point of view regarding a discussion is just a fundamental right and obvious of a forum which gathers so many people together with the same passion

And les remember thats why we are here!
 
Just read this stuff on the last two pages and haven't pruned as it should stand as an example of exactly what we don't want to see.

This thread is about the way ZG should handle trade posters - not about the posting style or forum history of certain individuals.
So yes, post //35 is out of order but we'll leave it as an example.

FWIW I think that people can take 'attack' to mean many things.
Simply challenging a persons ideas and opinions is not an attack unless the challenge is peppered with personal insult or questions a persons integrity.

The moderators as a team will determine when something crosses the line into ad hominem - it isn't always a black and white issue.

Back to the thread subject please - some good discussion going on so lets not get derailed.
 
WELL SPOKEN ROB, i think that the way we configuer our topics it is more in a way to share views q.&a. not to bitch prsoanally, but we will get diverse doctrine on threads that are personal tedious subgets,
nando.
 
Run this thread until Friday - long enough ?

Then we can go away and knock out some guidelines.
 
nice, i will have my tannoys soon or maybe not. anyway i still have dev's pictures of them. ha, ha,
 
Surely the incorporation of dealers and manufacturers into the open forum is a plus and shows that they are not just unknown identities behind company badges and those who choose to come here are really brave in my opinion as we dont all have the same views about gear and there are always positives and negatives.

These views good or bad are surely a benefit to the manufacturer in terms of feedback on their products and lets face it we are their salary! Any manufacturer or designer coming into these forums must be open to praise and constructive criticism to move forward with their products to satisfy their customers and to rule them out of threads due to being trade is daft as u could be chatting about one thing and then a refernce to a certain area of this particular manufacturers products or expertise arrises and its handy to have them around

We all need advice and none of us has heard every product out there and know the in and outs of them all.....so who do we go to manufactures and dealers for info and dems

So why deal with them in the first place if its a problem to have them in the forum, if u got something to say its best to say it to their face IMO!
 
Richard Dunn said:
Why, when they are the problem, why are the sacrisanct. You will not solve the problem until they are able to be discussed openly. The present situation that has been established between the major forums is just a form of censorship, and is used by some owners and mods to justify biased moderation.
Click to expand...

No issues at all with discussing them in general terms and in a productive way but what we should not be doing is bringing disputes from another forum here, which is what I was afraid was going to happen here. There are already too many personal comments in this thread for my liking but pruning it too much will make it discontinuous.
 
I really hope that this is just sorted out using the collective might of the forum members plus moderation when its gets to the insulting stage.

People have different viewpoints and that's half the fun of forum membership. When it's less fun is when people use harsh words like 'liar', 'idiot' etc. personal comments should be off limits IMHO. Calling into questions a members viewpoint in a non insulting way is fair game.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not sure if guidelines are strictly necessary, although "Thou shalt not blatantly promote thine own product" may be worthwhile ;-)

I think sensible moderation should keep things in check.
 
in what terms? do people do not have a view on the items that are sold via manufaturers direct to them!!!!!!!!!!!!! what happens to the dealers that have the manufacturers stock but can not sell them because they can buy them cheaper direct? only one issue, manufacturer will almost say,"go to so and so" have a listenig and if you want to buy them call me and we do a deal, i know that happens i saw it.
 
It is a fact of life when your time is up your time is up, it happened to the dinosaurs as well I am afraid. It is a hard world and business is business and people are programed to take the best advantage they can within the law, and sometimes outside the law.

So bleating that the world is unfair will do you no good, if you are a survivor you will be capable of looking at the market trends and following them. The days of sitting back and waiting for customers to come to you so you can take a 50% cut are over or soon will be.
 
I will start a dealer v direct tomorrow. This kind of conversation is not what this thread is about.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top