ZG & Trade posters - open discussion

Well well I can see this being an interesting few weeks to come, lets just hope all 'individuals' can put previous arguements and opinions to one side and respect the AUP and the spirit of the forum.

I think following this thread Rob, Dev and the others have created s fair setting for sll those involved trade or not and as Rob says upfront and honest is surely the best way forward.

I do hope that none of u trade guys are monopolised by anyone and are considered to be as or more beneficial to have here, especially with ur wider range of knowledge!

Good luck to all :)
Dan
 
it is well put rob, as you know from day one i always stated that i was trade,
nando.
 
Hummm that was my thoughts, surely a clearly headed title should be shown as before the AUP was put up werent we all individuals? Now there is a break away maybe aswell as 'trade' being stated possibly 'manufacturer' should be as equally expected.

Why wouldnt u be proud to state that u are a manucturer Richard?
 
danworth81 said:
Hummm that was my thoughts, surely a clearly headed title should be shown as before the AUP was put up werent we all individuals? Now there is a break away maybe aswell as 'trade' being stated possibly 'manufacturer' should be as equally expected.
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I think just 'trade' is fine.
If members want to know any more they only need to ask.

Consider this for example.
In conversation at the local pub a guy who seems to know his stuff mentions that the NatWest are currently offering some great investments. He's had a look at the market before investing his own cash and done some homework, but no other institution is offering such a good deal. Others in the conversation have taken his advice and, well it's only £3k into a savings account so I go and open the account after checking the blurb and seeing nothing obviously amiss.

Turns out that chap is employed by NatWest and earns commission for client referrals.

In that situation, wouldn't you like to know that facts?
Now he might be giving perfectly good advice but he should be upfront about his background and declare it because it might bias the advice given.

A hi-fi forum is little different.
Many individuals come here for advice and much advice is given.
 
danworth81 said:
Hummm that was my thoughts, surely a clearly headed title should be shown as before the AUP was put up werent we all individuals? Now there is a break away maybe aswell as 'trade' being stated possibly 'manufacturer' should be as equally expected.

Why wouldnt u be proud to state that u are a manucturer Richard?
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It depends which hat I have on. Hat #1 is of an individual enthusiast and wearing that hat I came here. Hat #2 is a Hi-Fi manufacturer and when I am wearing it I am proud of it but I don't wear it here.
 
Good enough for me Richard, not that my opinion really counts as to the running of the forum but for what its worth fair play!
 
Richard Dunn said:
It depends which hat I have on. Hat #1 is of an individual enthusiast and wearing that hat I came here. Hat #2 is a Hi-Fi manufacturer and when I am wearing it I am proud of it but I don't wear it here.
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I disagree. Irrespective of one's role within an industry, that a person is in it changes the weighting of what they say and potentially why they say it. It also changes the weighting of how people react to and receive what they say.

Your reactions to my post will be tempered by my 'trade' status, even if your ultimate response to it is not. It is only right to extend others the same right of disclosure and recognition.

In your case, a number of your posts are related to how you view the status and future of the audio industry. Whether you make these statements as an 'enthusiast' or not doesn't change the fact that such posts usually end up in support of your company's own business model. Hardly surprising, and perfectly understandable. However, making these proclamations as an Individual rather than a trade member allows you to make damaging statements about the future of the audio business that cannot be challenged, because that crosses over into discussions about your business model, at which point you hide behind your Shield of Individuality.

"I could be arguing in my spare time," didn't hold water in Monty Python's 'Argument Sketch.' Why should it hold for you?
 
My business model and posts are because of my views, where as my views and posts are not because of my business model. If I was a marketing man or salesman that would be the other way around. Those are the people you need to worry about.
 
Richard Dunn said:
My business model and posts are because of my views, where as my views and posts are not because of my business model. If I was a marketing man or salesman that would be the other way around. Those are the people you need to worry about.
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Richard,

As far as I can see, you are pretty much a one-man company. It therefore follows that you are, by definition a marketing/salesman. Or do you just make your kit to stack in the corner?

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Richard,

As far as I can see, you are pretty much a one-man company. It therefore follows that you are, by definition a marketing/salesman. Or do you just make your kit to stack in the corner?

Chris
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Your usual bloody daft contribution, you just twist words to mean what you want, which is to start an ad hominem argument with me, it is a continuous pathetic game.

It will be obvious to everyone else here what I mean, but just for you. If you employ or subcontract the selling and promotion of a product they do it for money and they promote your views because they are being paid for it, and also very often they are on a commision basis so the incentive is to bullshit and twist and use tricks, which is what Rob refered to, it is meaningless what their personal views are, so they cannot be an individual.

Where as I am an enthusiast, I build equipment for me, if other people want to buy them then fine I make a living from it. If people didn't like them and nothing was sold I still would change *nothing* unless *I* thought it was better. I have another business and source of income and I would concentrate on that and just listen to my own gear.

That is the difference between an employed marketing man or salesman and my position. Anyway I don't market or sell I just make equipment available on ebay and people buy from word of mouth and recomendation, it is very simple. No adverts, no reviews, no retail shops, no bullshit, just my opinion, so people take it or leave it.
 
Richard Dunn said:
Your usual bloody daft contribution, you just twist words to mean what you want, which is to start an ad hominem argument with me, it is a continuous pathetic game.

It will be obvious to everyone else here what I mean, but just for you. If you employ or subcontract the selling and promotion of a product they do it for money and they promote your views because they are being paid for it, and also very often they are on a commision basis so the incentive is to bullshit and twist and use tricks, which is what Rob refered to, it is meaningless what their personal views are, so they cannot be an individual.

Where as I am an enthusiast, I build equipment for me, if other people want to buy them then fine I make a living from it. If people didn't like them and nothing was sold I still would change *nothing* unless *I* thought it was better. I have another business and source of income and I would concentrate on that and just listen to my own gear.

That is the difference between an employed marketing man or salesman and my position. Anyway I don't market or sell I just make equipment available on ebay and people buy from word of mouth and recomendation, it is very simple. No adverts, no reviews, no retail shops, no bullshit, just my opinion, so people take it or leave it.
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Richard,

You make your kit available on ebay. Like it or not, that is marketing. And marketing is not necessarily a perjorative term.

I did not mean to provoke you. I was not trying to provoke you. You got provoked, nevertheless.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Richard,

You make your kit available on ebay. Like it or not, that is marketing. And marketing is not necessarily a perjorative term.

I did not mean to provoke you. I was not trying to provoke you. You got provoked, nevertheless.

Chris
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You sir are a liar. There is archive record of your posts to me on PF and on here, no one will find one that is constructive, or is not trying to pick a fight. I have had a couple of years experience of this. I don't know where you find the gall to make a statement like that.

Once again you confuse the job with the person. I am sure *everyone else* understands what I am saying, you are twisting and playing semantics to continue your agenda. Are you by chance a saleman or marketing man?
 
Richard Dunn said:
My business model and posts are because of my views, where as my views and posts are not because of my business model.
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You hold a set of views about the hi-fi industry and work to a specific business model inside the confines of the hi-fi industry. As you are a sole trader within this industry, the two are intrinsically linked.

How one shaped the other is entirely irrelevant to your trade status.
 
Richard Dunn said:
Where as I am an enthusiast, I build equipment for me, if other people want to buy them then fine I make a living from it. If people didn't like them and nothing was sold I still would change *nothing* unless *I* thought it was better. I have another business and source of income and I would concentrate on that and just listen to my own gear.
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Also irrelevant. Presumably you declare your hi-fi business as a second income to HMR&C; If you do, you are in the audio business. If you do not, you are in the tax evasion business. I guess this might be the one time even you would prefer to admit to being in the audio business!
 
Fnuckle said:
You hold a set of views about the hi-fi industry and work to a specific business model inside the confines of the hi-fi industry. As you are a sole trader within this industry, the two are intrinsically linked.

How one shaped the other is entirely irrelevant to your trade status.
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If a came here as trade, or had promoted myself here or my products I would understand your point, and is you find any *un-responding* mention of my business trade or product then I would agree with you.

As it is the fact remains, I came here as an individual, I remain here as an individual. You will find no promotion of my company or products, none of that is going to change.
 
Fnuckle said:
Also irrelevant. Presumably you declare your hi-fi business as a second income to HMR&C; If you do, you are in the audio business. If you do not, you are in the tax evasion business. I guess this might be the one time even you would prefer to admit to being in the audio business!
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I am a sole trader doing what I want to do, I could go out cleaning windows if I wanted to. You are making unfounded allegations that are libelous, you should go very carefull.
 

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