Madonna fall

[mr cat]

I worked on the doomed e-mail system that the NHS outsourced for a couple of years...that cost 90 million, but they scrapped it...it was like they had a massive budget, but were determined to blow it...

 

[lhatkins]

I think you find most football fans couldn't walk for 90 mins! Most people can't kick a football will great accuracy. Most people, including alot of profesional footballers, can't hit a long field pass. Or cross the ball with good accuracy.

If you know anything about football, then you will know that David Beckham's strengths lie in his ability to hit quality free kicks, corners, long range passes.

He burst onto the scene in 1996 when he scored a goal from the halfway line. He saw the keeper off his goal line and hit an inch perfect chip from the near the centre spot. Scoring from the halfway line is very hard to do. I doubt Kemit the frog or Miss Piggy could do it!



That maybe so but to do well in the music business, you need more than vocal talent. Victoria did well because she was a member of the Spice girls. The Spice girls had a very strong group image. (Girl Power) The members of the group were distinct characters which added to their appeal. (Victoria was the posh one.)

The marketing worked. It gave them a huge female fan base with male appeal.

In the Spice girls, Victoria didn't have much solo singing mainly the odd line. She sang in unison with the rest of the girls.

I agree she is not that good a vocalist but in context of the Spice girls she has done well.

Like them or not, they are the biggest selling female group of alltime. They have made themselves, their record company and this country a lot of money.



It's not strange at all. It's always been that way. Throughout history it has been like this. The people with the money decide what other people get paid. If you are in the entertaiment business then you can get good money. The entertainment business makes a lot of money so people demand, and get, bigger fees and wages.

As a dj and someone who works in the music business, I have benefited from this. I have done gigs where I have earned more in a few hours than what some people earn in a week. It's just the way things are.

Don't get me wrong, I do think nurses, doctors should get more money. They can do excellent work. In these fields, the higher qualified &/or more experienced &/or higher ranked people can get more pay. The skills on offer can give this. It just that more money can be gained elsewhere.

SCIDB

your probably right about the footie fans there!

No your right, I don't watch football, just doesn't interest me, but skill is being able to repeat these abilities over again, could it have been just luck that got him that gaol, has he done it since?

I'm sure these people are very good at the jobs they do, I just don't see how that is "important" to society, what benefits are they bringing?

Like you say that's just the way it is, it just seems wrong to me, it would be better if the system was you where paid based on your contribution to society.

 

[The Devil]

Lets not mention the "online paicent booking" website, complete flop! how much did that cost? Money that could have been used to actually employ "STAFF".

That's a govt initiative foisted onto the NHS.

 

[leonard smalls]

It's funny, the notion the world seems to have of worth..
A m8 of mine was a director of a merchant bank - his annual bonus was between £5m and £10m, plus his wages! He managed to retire aged 45 to a very large chalet in the alps where he spends his time skiing..
Beckham gets a similar amount of money for kicking a ball round and allowing the media to phograph his family..Whereas folks who do the actual caring for society's needs such as binmen, nurses etc get a wage that would barely get them a mortgage on a studio flat anywhere in London!
It seems our notion of worth is solely based on the amount of money a person generates. Strange indeed.

 

[SCIDB]

your probably right about the footie fans there!

No your right, I don't watch football, just doesn't interest me,

How can you then say he has no skill?

but skill is being able to repeat these abilities over again, could it have been just luck that got him that gaol, has he done it since?

David Beckham has proved his ability over the years. That is why he get paid alot and has played at a high level. His goal scoring record is good for a midfielder.

Scoring from the halfway line is not very common at all. It is usually quite hard. Very few footballers have scored from this distance.

There is also an element of luck from scoring from this position. Usually the keeper needs to be off his goal line. The skill comes from lining your shot up and hitting it with enough power and accuracy to beat the keeper.

I'm sure these people are very good at the jobs they do, I just don't see how that is "important" to society, what benefits are they bringing?

Entertainment is very important to any society. It makes people feel better, it relaxes people, it stirs the emotion, brings out many forms of pride, offers escapism etc.

In many societies, entertainment makes people forget the drudgeries of life. Any thing from a few seconds, to a few minutes, to a few hours, to a few days, entertainment can brighter up peoples lives.

Different things entertain different people but football meets all these points. It is one reason why it is the world's number one sport.

Football is very good at stiring the emotions. This can be good and bad.

Good entertainment can be good for moral and well being.

Like you say that's just the way it is, it just seems wrong to me, it would be better if the system was you where paid based on your contribution to society.

In a lot of peoples eyes, entertainers have contributed a lot to society.The contibution is that they have entertained their fans and the fans see this. If entertainers can make people feel good, their services are in demand.

Take Elvis Presley. When he died, 28 years ago, you should have seen the scenes. I remember it well. Some people went into heavy mourning. People were crying, fainting and bawling here there and everywhere.

The bulk of these people had never meet or seen him live. But his music touched their hearts. People were more upset by his passing then deaths of members from their own families.

Elvis made people feel good, which is not always the case with families.

Leonard has made a good point of society judging worth by the money they generate. It is very strange but that's the way it is.

One of the downside is that if people like nurses, binmen etc went on strike for more money, people will be up in arms. People will be shouting "get back to work!" rather than supporting them. If nurses and doctors all down tools and walked out, just think of the uproar.

The main solutions for getting more money are to find a better paid job, have more than one job or ask your employer to pay you more. A lot people get most joy out of the first two options. That the way things have gone.

SCIDB

 

[domfjbrown]

Perhaps you should get some kind of clue, before posting.

Go on then - enlighten me. In almost every industry there are far too many managers doing far too little work - especially in the public sector (I work for the MoD). I'm willing to be corrected.

If they have the shitty-assed system the MoD has for everything (three quotes for products - even on non-negotiable-price stuff like Macromedia software for example), then there's one CLEAR CUT area where your tax is being sqaundered.

We have a fair few managers here who are only in that post to make up quotas - what's the sense in that?

Then there's my sister - taken into hospital in Liverpool for tests - in there two weeks, then told they "don't have the budget to do the tests at this time", and sent home. TWO WEEKS OF NURSE CARE for **** all. Explain to me then how you can justify that. And that's one case.

As for Beckham/football - pathetic. Sure he's skilled, but come on, any cretin can kick a ball and boff a failed singer. He gets paid about 1000x more than he's worth for doing something that's about as relevant as nothing. DO me a favour.

I have no interest in football either, but have seen him kick a ball about on telly, and, sure, he has flair, but let's get some perspective here. It's only a game (that we invented, and now suck at, unless you count football hooliganism into the bargain, in which case, Britain is still the world leader at - unfortunately). Beautiful game my arse.

 

[Joe]

As for Beckham/football - pathetic. Sure he's skilled, but come on, any cretin can kick a ball and boff a failed singer. He gets paid about 1000x more than he's worth for doing something that's about as relevant as nothing. DO me a favour.

He is 'worth' what people will pay him for his skills/looks, in the same way that the price for any product or service is determined by demand versus supply. That's why tickets to see U2 cost lots more than tickets to see an up-and-coming indie band with one album to their name, despite the fact that U2 are shite.

 

[leonard smalls]

Take Elvis Presley. When he died, 28 years ago, you should have seen the scenes. I remember it well. Some people went into heavy mourning. People were crying, fainting and bawling here there and everywhere.

The bulk of these people had never meet or seen him live. But his music touched their hearts. People were more upset by his passing then deaths of members from their own families.

Aye, but I don't think all of that mourning was down to love of Elvis...
As another example, when Lady Di was killed the whole country shut down with people vyeing with each other to see who could be the most covered in sackcloth and ashes. She'd never done anything specifically for them, and at best (imho of course) she was the creation of clever marketing. Anyone who dared to say anything against her was committing the most heinous blasphemy.
And why do I think that is?
Because folk are, in their heart of hearts, sheep incapable of a single original thought!
But when it comes down to it, money makes money. Those with the money dictate to those without. That's the basis of the capitalist system.. Right or wrong we're stuck with it..

 

[Joe]

Because folk are, in their heart of hearts, sheep incapable of a single original thought!

Would you include yourself in this sheep-like definition?

 

[SCIDB]

As for Beckham/football - pathetic.

Why?

Sure he's skilled, but come on, any cretin can kick a ball

There is a big difference between kicking a ball and playing football with a high level of skill and ability. If you don't know much about football, how can you make such statements? If you think it's that easy, why don't you give Alex Inglethorpe (Exeter City) manager a call. If it's that easy, you'll get in the side no problems.

On second thoughts, why don't you give Jose Mourinho (Chelsea Manager) a call. Just think of the money you earn if any certin can do it.

and boff a failed singer.

A singer that was a member of one of the most sucessful female group of alltime. Not bad for a failed singer. I admit, I don't care to much for her singing but millions of people around the world seemed to like her as part of the Spice girls.

As for David & Victoria's relationship, that is their business.

He gets paid about 1000x more than he's worth for doing something that's about as relevant as nothing. DO me a favour.

So who predicts his worth? You? Do you pay him? No. In your mind he's not worth much but in the minds of others (people dishing the wages) he is worth something. If you think you are worth more go to you boss this afternoon and ask for a pay rise. It will be interesting see what his/her response will be.

As for being relevant to nothing, why is there a big interest in football world wide? Why do nearly a million people pay good money to watch Priemiership and Championship football? Why did 15 million people watch Man Utd win in Europe as part of the treble? Why to billions watch the world cup? Why do millions of kids around the world use jumpers for goalposts and pretend to be their heroes? Why do millions of people play football at the various level?

It's because it is relevant to a lot of people.

I have no interest in football either,

It shows. I have no problem with that.

but have seen him kick a ball about on telly, and, sure, he has flair, but let's get some perspective here. It's only a game (that we invented, and now suck at, unless you count football hooliganism into the bargain, in which case, Britain is still the world leader at - unfortunately). Beautiful game my arse.

Think about it. Why do you think Beckham (& others) can earn shed loads? Why some grounds can charge £30 + to watch a game? Why Fans can travel 1000's of miles to watch a game?

It's a multi-billion pound industry. It's the national sport, it's very popular, it's part of many peoples lives. To many people, it's more than just a game, it's a way of life.


SCIDB

 

[Markus S]

Hey Dean, your name is not really Dean, is it, but rather Nick Hornby? Either that or you were the inspiration for Fever Pitch (which I liked).

 

[SCIDB]

Hey Dean, your name is not really Dean, is it, but rather Nick Hornby? Either that or you were the inspiration for Fever Pitch (which I liked).

Hi Markus,

I've been rumbled! That was the introduction to my new book, "More Fever, More Pitch".


No in truth, I can relate to alot of the points as a football fan. A lot of people in this and other countries can. I feel the joy and emotion of my team (Sheffield Wednesday) doing well. Like in the play off final. You feel the spirit, pride and togetherness when 42000 people leave Sheffield to watch a game in Cardiff Wales.

strong emotions.

I did enjoy Fever Pitch and his other book High Fidelity


Nick Hornby, I mean SCIDB

 

[lhatkins]

On second thoughts, why don't you give Jose Mourinho (Chelsea Manager) a call. Just think of the money you earn if any certin can do it.
SCIDB

not to think of the headlines, I can just see it now "blind player in top league, bends it like beckham" sorry couldn't ressit.

Actually I think Dom and I should sign up for Exeter can't be any worse than what they already have, doesn't matter how many spoons are bent!

Because folk are, in their heart of hearts, sheep incapable of a single original thought!

to dam right.
Elvis who? Acually SCIDB I didn't think you where that old?
At least DI was putting something back into society, ok only a public face, not like got her hands dirty. but ya still the whole thing over her funeral was way OTT IMHO.

 

[domfjbrown]

OUTED - Dean, the Spice Girls and Manchester United fan He he - just joshing.

There is a big difference between kicking a ball and playing football with a high level of skill and ability. If you don't know much about football, how can you make such statements? If you think it's that easy, why don't you give Alex Inglethorpe (Exeter City) manager a call. If it's that easy, you'll get in the side no problems.

As Lhatkins says, I can't physically play it - if my eyes were OK from birth, than maybe I'd consider giving it a shot. Since I was crap and only ever got stuck in goal (where I sucked), I kind of couldn't be arsed with it.

There was this ONE time when I was in defence, and for once in my life decided to TRY to play football instead of go through the motions, and tackled the biggest kid in our year (and won!) by basically just running straight at him. It got a team mate the ball and won the game, but sadly, I was still emotionally dead to the game. I really honestly and TRULY can't see what the point in that game is, and no amount of persuasion will change my opinion.

Besides, when you've lived in Plymouth and Exeter all your life (the brief blip of Reading was during their pre-Madjeski stage too) you tend to not be interested, as your home teams are shite. Supporting a team far far away always seemed like cheating to me, as any fool can support Man U or Leeevahpooohl.

A singer that was a member of one of the most sucessful female group of alltime. Not bad for a failed singer.

Opens the "where are they now" file...

If she had REAL talent, rather than being dumped into a band for looks and marketability, she'd be more than a "failed singer" in my eyes, as she'd be out there now doing good records. The deafening silence speaks volumes ergo she sucked in the big scheme of things.

As for being relevant to nothing, why is there a big interest in football world wide? Why do nearly a million people pay good money to watch Priemiership and Championship football? Why did 15 million people watch Man Utd win in Europe as part of the treble?

Think about it. Why do you think Beckham (& others) can earn shed loads? Why some grounds can charge £30 + to watch a game? Why Fans can travel 1000's of miles to watch a game?

...it's a way of life.

There's no accounting for taste Seriously, I JUST DO NOT GET IT. I do admit, I watch the World Cup, and am not averse to watching the odd match down the boozer, but this new religion that foolsball has become just makes no sense to me.

Mind you, there's a pattern here - Spice Girls and Football (in particular Man U) - two of the biggest phenomena ever - ever wandered if not wanting to stand out by not being "into" these phenomena is WHY said phenomena are/were so huge? Not to impune YOU here Dean, it's just a thought?

Snooker, rally driving, skateboarding, banger racing - now THAT'S what I call sport!

 

[Joe]

Mind you, there's a pattern here - Spice Girls and Football (in particular Man U) - two of the biggest phenomena ever - ever wandered if not wanting to stand out by not being "into" these phenomena is WHY said phenomena are/were so huge? Not to impune YOU here Dean, it's just a thought?

So, what you're saying is, you can't play football, don't like watching it, yet feel qualified to say whether a professional player, one of the best in the world a few years back, is 'worth' whatever he's paid? You have never (I assume) had a recording contract, yet feel qualified to dismiss someone whose sold millions of records as 'failed'?

It's very easy to slag people off and say 'Oh, anyone could do that', but if you personally can't or won't do it, what value does your opinion have?

 

[leonard smalls]

Would you include yourself in this sheep-like definition?

I see myself as more of a mountain goat

 

[SCIDB]

Hi Dom,

Interesting comments!

So, what you're saying is, you can't play football, don't like watching it, yet feel qualified to say whether a professional player, one of the best in the world a few years back, is 'worth' whatever he's paid? You have never (I assume) had a recording contract, yet feel qualified to dismiss someone whose sold millions of records as 'failed'?

It's very easy to slag people off and say 'Oh, anyone could do that', but if you personally can't or won't do it, what value does your opinion have?

Well said Joe.

Having an opinion is one thing but having an informed one is another. You have tried to come across as an expert on something you have little knowledge or understanding about. Is this something you do all the time?


SCIDB

 

[SCIDB]

OUTED - Dean, the Spice Girls and Manchester United fan He he - just joshing.

Lets get one thing straight, I'm a Sheffield Wednesday supporter.

As Lhatkins says, I can't physically play it

Funny, according to you anyone can play this game.

I really honestly and TRULY can't see what the point in that game is, and no amount of persuasion will change my opinion.

No problem with that but if try and come across as an expert you will get challenged.

Besides, when you've lived in Plymouth and Exeter all your life (the brief blip of Reading was during their pre-Madjeski stage too) you tend to not be interested, as your home teams are shite. Supporting a team far far away always seemed like cheating to me, as any fool can support Man U or Leeevahpooohl.

Plymouth get big crowds and is in the Championship Division. Exeter are top of the Conference league.

Man U & Liverpool are popular beacause they have had soem great players and managers and have won things. Hence the big interest in these clubs.

Opens the "where are they now" file...

If she had REAL talent, rather than being dumped into a band for looks and marketability, she'd be more than a "failed singer" in my eyes, as she'd be out there now doing good records. The deafening silence speaks volumes ergo she sucked in the big scheme of things.

Rubbish. Plenty of ex famous band members have done very little after they left their groups. Sucessful artists relay on luck and marketing &/or talent Plenty of talented acts don't make it big.

Victoria B was part of a group who hit the spot for many people. She was in the right place at the right time. Just like countless other groups and acts.

I don't mind the Spice girls as pop group go. There are plenty better and plenty worst.

There's no accounting for taste Seriously, I JUST DO NOT GET IT. I do admit, I watch the World Cup, and am not averse to watching the odd match down the boozer, but this new religion that foolsball has become just makes no sense to me.

Football has been a religion for people for many years. More people go to the football than to church.

Mind you, there's a pattern here - Spice Girls and Football (in particular Man U) - two of the biggest phenomena ever - ever wandered if not wanting to stand out by not being "into" these phenomena is WHY said phenomena are/were so huge? Not to impune YOU here Dean, it's just a thought?

I have only mentioned Man Utd once. That was to get a point across. I think you will find David Beckham plays for real Madrid.

Likewise the Spice were used to show a point.

As for liking both, what wrong with that? I have already said my thoughts on the Spice girls. I'm not a Man U fan, I support the mighty Owls. Being a football expert you will know who Owls are.


SCIDB

 

[domfjbrown]

Funny, according to you anyone can play this game.

No problem with that but if try and come across as an expert you will get challenged.

One - I never said I was an expert, and all opinions are my own -that doesn't make them fact. Two - anyone CAN play that stupid game - whether you're any good or not is irrelevant. I physically CAN play the game (ie I can kick the ball etc) but can't see far enough down a pitch to take a long shot, so in other words would never be any good in a real game. That still means I can kick a ball - hardly an Einstein acheivement.

Plymouth get big crowds and is in the Championship Division. Exeter are top of the Conference league.

I moved out of Plymouth in 1999; obviously they've improved their game skills significantly since then. Not watching footie results on Saturday afternoons, I'd not know this (as I'd never set foot in Plymouth again now it's going the skaghead route).

Rubbish. Plenty of ex famous band members have done very little after they left their groups.

Exactly - where are they now - "would you like fries with that, sir?" - or then there's Kim Wilde with her landscape gardening (WTF is that all about?).

I don't mind the Spice girls as pop group go. There are plenty better and plenty worst.

Neither do I as it happens I even owned the Spice World movie for a few weeks (got it second hand) as I was curious

As I say, I never said I was an expert on football. However, seeing someone do what I consider to be something fairly simple and being paid ridiculous amounts for it when a doctor has to work a 70 hour week and get less in a year than Beckham gets in a match makes me physically sick to be honest.

 

[The Devil]

Doctors aren't allowed to work a 70 hour week any more, there are now legal limits. Not when I was training, however.