NO NO To The Euro

[cookiemonster]

i am proud to be british

I have to say, i also find this a curious statement, and one i do not understand - or more accurately, cannot relate to - which of course does not imply that those who utter it do not wholeheartedly believe it or understand it, which i respect. But how can you be proud of, what is in effect, your place of birth, which is a lottery? I can understand how you could be glad or grateful, but proud?

then see what happens to your tin pot economy

I am not proud to be British either Michael - at times i am ashamed to be human - but to speak of a country you have lived and worked in as 'your' in a derogatory fashion strikes me as peculiar. Could you be proud to be Portugese? To me it is the whole concept of pride in ones country that is baffling, regardless of whatever country it may be. I find allegiance to a country or slander of an other country baffling. These boundaries and their contents are artificial and malleable, not natural. A global community without boundaries or passports is utopian - but a nice thought - but of course too many have too much to lose, and their are forces at work beyond anybodys individual control. I notice that all of these arguments on both sides of the coin are based around political, economical and historical concerns. I see a gaping hole which needs filling with a good splodge of humanitarian goo.


cheers

 

[themadhippy]

If I don't have my ID card on me [at all times] along with at least 50 Euroids then I can be classed by the police as a vagrant !!!!!

£35 just to walk around as a free man they can shove that idea right up there political arses,id permantly be under arrest as i rarley have much more than a pack of fags and a quid or two just incase.
As for the euro,yes its a good idea as far as buisness is concerned however talking to sevral dutch ,german and irish people on the subject they all mentioned that with the euro came price rise,i seem to recall the same thing happening with decimalisation.

 

[michaelab]

I work for a Swiss company so that's European, but not in the EU

The rest of your post, you make some valid points. I wasn't calling you or anyone else a facist but it is lamentable than in all things EU related, the vast majority of the UK population has a pretty xenophobic and nationalist (in the worst sense) view. With most of the popular press supporting this view and constantly spouting rubbish about the EU and painting it in a very dim light that's hardly going to change.

The UK does have a rich history and there is a lot to be proud of but more often than not these days when people say they are proud to be British they mean by subtle implication to add "and glad not to be anything else". Pride in ones own country whilst respecting others is much harder to find.

IMO we should look beyond nationalism and pride in our country and take a broader view. I, for instance, am proud to be European rather than British or (when the time comes) Portuguese.

That the UK has consistently (at least since 1979) done it's best to slow down, water down or otherwise sabotage the EU process is something that makes me intensely angry. There are many other reasons too numerous to go into why I have quite a strong dislike of the UK and wouldn't want to return to live there. These all added together make me inclined to say that I'm not proud to be British.

Michael.

 

[voodoo]

Originally posted by themadhippy
they all mentioned that with the euro came price rise,i seem to recall the same thing happening with decimalisation.

True but it varied from country to country so it would be up to the UK businesses to decide this.

When the Euro was introduced on the January, all businesses had to hold their prices until the end of March; so that everybody would be 'aclimatised' (sic ?)

After that the businesses were legally free to do as they would normally.
I think Mr Toneeeeeeeee Blaaaaaaaair forgets to mention that this is an option as it's beneficial for the public but not for big business.

 

[michaelab]

Originally posted by cookiemonster
I am not proud to be British either Michael - at times i am ashamed to be human - but to speak of a country you have lived and worked in as 'your' in a derogatory fashion strikes me as peculiar. Could you be proud to be Portugese? To me it is the whole concept of pride in ones country that is baffling, regardless of whatever country it may be. I find allegiance to a country or slander of an other country baffling. These boundaries and their contents are artificial and malleable, not natural. A global community without boundaries or passports is utopian - but a nice thought - but of course too many have too much to lose, and their are forces at work beyond anybodys individual control. I notice that all of these arguments on both sides of the coin are based around political, economical and historical concerns. I see a gaping hole which needs filling with a good splodge of humanitarian goo.

Dino, as ever, your contribution is superb and timely My antagonism towards the UK is perhaps a form of "reformed smoker syndrome". Now I've got out it makes me feel good to have the odd dig here and there

As you rightly say, nationalities and borders are just artificial contraints on mankind and would be best got rid off. I was going to say something similar earlier in response to Dom's rant about asylum seekers. I say, get rid of all immigration controls, let everyone who wants go wherever they want. After all, since we've cr@pped on many of their countries from a great height and then keep screwing them (the countries) by lending them money they can't afford so they can buy more weapons from us and in the process make us richer and them poorer it's not surprising that they want to come and have their piece of the pie.

Michael.

 

[cookiemonster]

a gift for the patriots (not being facetious, just happened upon it, just now)

 

[Dev]

I've so far resisted the temptation to enter this debate but I can't see why one can't be a proud Briton and still accept Euro. Why are the two so mutually exclusive?

Regarding the comments about the relatives strengths of the Pound and Euro, that situation exists today. Who is to say that it won't be reversed tomorrow? Can anyone honestly say that if the German and the French weren't using Euros they wouldn't have economic problems? I've been to France and Germany recently and regularly talk to my colleagues in those countries, not one person has ever said anything bad about the Euro.

As I see it the world is getting smaller and we will end up being closer to other nations/cultures whether we like it or not. While others in Europe just seem to be making the most of the situation they are in, we just seem to spend forever just debating why it's not good enough for us

 

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Dev
I've so far resisted the temptation to enter this debate but I can't see why one can't be a proud Briton and still accept Euro. Why are the two so mutually exclusive?

Regarding the comments about the relatives strengths of the Pound and Euro, that situation exists today. Who is to say that it won't be reversed tomorrow? Can anyone honestly say that if the German and the French weren't using Euros they wouldn't have economic problems? I've been to France and Germany recently and regularly talk to my colleagues in those countries, not one person has ever said anything bad about the Euro.

As I see it the world is getting smaller and we will end up being closer to other nations/cultures whether we like it or not. While others in Europe just seem to be making the most of the situation they are in, we just seem to spend forever just debating why it's not good enough for us

Tres bien !

 

[Graham C]

I think UK based people need to think beyond the political brainwashing.

Why do we need advice from those who have left the UK - taking
their revenue with them and making our economy poorer?

Of course big business wants the common currency for trade,
and will threaten to move if we choose not to join. They would
also like to have the tax removed from oil/tabacco/alcohol, sell weapons to anybody worldwide etc. In fact nowadays businesses often don't even care about their own financial soundness, just those wonderful market values for the CEOs beloved share options


You cannot say that the countries in the EU are comparable.
Apart from the hugely different histories and societies, they are
all completely different GEOGRAPHICALLY.
The UK is about a dozen islands external to Europe, and I dont
see why the land-bordered Euro countries are going to do anything to assist our trading position. So tying our economy to a bloated bureaucratic monster like the EU will either mean:

1] The financial systems are adjusted for "the average" EU economy, and are therefore wrong for many EU countries [just like the CAP..]

or [more likely]

2] It is fudged to assist the Germans/French/Belgians/whoever

Since we have been net economic losers in the EU balance sheet
since we joined, who can explain to me why the EU will help our
islands, and the people who dont leave Britain?

The UK has yet to reap the harvest that the EU sowed when it forced us to index link pensions for all those parasites who spend their retirement outside the UK. I reckon if you retire abroad, you should get nothing from the social security in the UK.

 

[Dev]

Originally posted by Graham C
The UK has yet to reap the harvest that the EU sowed when it forced us to index link pensions for all those parasites who spend their retirement outside the UK. I reckon if you retire abroad, you should get nothing from the social security in the UK.

So if someone spends his/her entire working life paying NI contributions in this country and then retires abroad to make best use of their hard earnt pension, they are a parasite. How do you figure that out? By definition a parasite is someone who lives at the expense of another, the pension money is what they have put aside, it' s not a charity.

 

[Graham C]

Originally posted by Dev
So if someone spends his/her entire working life paying NI contributions in this country and then retires abroad to make best use of their hard earnt pension, they are a parasite. How do you figure that out? By definition a parasite is someone who lives at the expense of another, the pension money is what they have put aside, it' s not a charity.

Because the £90 a week [..or whatever] we pay to old Mrs Higgins gets reinvested back in the UK. OK she may be buying French apples and driving a Peugeot, but at least the UK gets a cut on the way.
For every 20 or so old biddys, we have a shelf stacker in Tescos, a meals-on-wheels driver, a nurse, etc. [and of course, she is giving back VAT, council tax etc.] This is all part of the formula for the level of taxation required for the state pension. Everyone who gives the UK pension to another country is increasing the revenue required to be paid by UK citizens for National insurance.
Of course, if all countries were comparable in Europe it wouldn't matter because the UK would have interesting pockets of French and Portugese pensioners living in Dorset and Bournemouth...But we know it aint like that is it? It's a one way migration, and we also all know that the billions invested a high speed rail link to France isn't going to bring the French hoards faster to the UK to buy our booze and ciggies is it?

Those who have chosen to live elsewhere havent done it out because of some pro European ideal, they did it because they like the place they choose to live in. Personally I give the UK 100 years max before it is sold off as bankrupt stock to the Chinese or Indians. At least I am trying to help slow its decline.

 

[PBirkett]

In 100 years time, Britain will be a bankrupt pit overrun by asylum seekers and astronomical crime as a result of these vagrants. The future is not bright. Soon after that, the worlds climate as a result of global warming will result in a planet approaching uninhabitable due to severe weather.

Just think yourselves lucky you wont be alive to experience this...

:JOEL:

 

[cookiemonster]

In 100 years time, Britain will be a bankrupt pit overrun by asylum seekers and astronomical crime as a result of these vagrants. The future is not bright. Soon after that, the worlds climate as a result of global warming will result in a planet approaching uninhabitable due to severe weather.

Paul, i think you should at least elucidate and ponder critically, rife opinion such as that, and refrain from soundbites and sensationalism wherever possible. That is my opinion.

:JOEL:

 

[PBirkett]

Eh?

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/plainenglishguide.html

 

[cookiemonster]

Eh?

http://www.beer.com/

 

[michaelab]

Originally posted by Graham C
Of course, if all countries were comparable in Europe it wouldn't matter because the UK would have interesting pockets of French and Portugese pensioners living in Dorset and Bournemouth...But we know it aint like that is it? It's a one way migration

Hmmm.....I wonder why that is then?

In any case, I'm not quite sure why you brought up retirement and pensioners. I'm a long way from retiring (I'm 35), I left the UK because I didn't like it and wanted to live somewhere else. I believe the same is true for Voodoo (he'll correct me if I'm wrong). I'm paying taxes here in Portugal and I have a private pension and other investments so you needn't worry about me being a "parasite" on the UK

I don't know why you feel you have any duty to help "slow the decline" of the UK. If you like it, fine. If you don't, get out and enjoy your life somewhere else. Everyone has a right to live, work and retire wherever they feel like if they have the means to do so. If the UK is not an attractive place to live, work and retire then it's no one's duty to stay there, it's the UK's duty to make it more attractive.

Michael.

 

[michaelab]

Originally posted by PBirkett
In 100 years time, Britain will be a bankrupt pit overrun by asylum seekers and astronomical crime as a result of these vagrants.

If someone is prepared to risk death and travel in utterly subhuman conditions to get into the UK illegally for the hope of starting a better life then it does not make them vagrants. Good luck to them I say.

Michael.

 

[PBirkett]

They should not be allowed here to cause crime and make honest people's lives more difficult as a result. Proof is already starting to be seen that these vagrants are causing crime. A police spokesman for Manchester said after a number of these vagrants were deported said that he was more than confident the crime in Manchester would drop considerably.

Yet our government is a pushover and a bunch of pansies and lets these vagrants get away with it.

 

[michaelab]

Whatever Paul - it's clear you don't get it Just be grateful you weren't born in any of the countries where these desperate people come from.

Michael.

 

[cookiemonster]

Paul - i would like to respond to the points you have raised in a legitimate and comprehensive manner - but the prospect alone leaves me exhausted, with the extent of the possible communications in prospect. I suspect this act of apathy and failure on my part is as guilty of destruction as that which is more tangible from the hands of those which are thrust through fear, retribution, and a lack of empathy, love or any attempt at critical thinking.

I find it interesting that we all seek to lay blame at external sources in response to our misfortunes. Perhaps if we all tried to improve ourselves instead of trying to improve the world, some form of limited peace within the confines of human sanity would be attested to. Instead we continue to wield the axe and thrash it frantically at the nearest fucking obstacle. I try to refrain from moralising, but **** it.




Excuse my use of language which our society deems to be coarse and rude - like rubbing up a granny with sandpaper.