Planning to buy an entirely new system.

Just went to sevenoaks. My amp only hummed a little bit more than their one. Apparently this is pretty normal and the guy seemed surprised I could notice it from so far away. I've got irritable ears - they're drawn to problems. I really shouldn't get too sucked into this hi-fi malarky, I'll never be happy. It just makes me more aware of the problems.

They're sending the amp back to leema who are going to reduce the gains for free (apparently they thought I was asking for something more complicated when they were going to charge for it). That might reduce the hum, and will reduce the other concerns I had.

It should also make it more plausible for me to use the DEQ2496 and its higher levels.

I'm thinking I could get the upgraded version Tenson does and use it as a DAC for my CD player, and that would also let me use it for DEQ reasons. (So basically, since going to see sevenoaks I'm back to where I was a few pages ago.)

What do people think about using a Tenson upgrade as a DAC? Quality wise, what sort of stand alone DAC would it be comparable to? I remember reading some positive reviews of the modded DEQ2496, but they were quite old, and I don't know if this is an area where technology's moving on.

I'm also wondering if some of the effects on the DEQ2496 could be used to soften the harshness of inputs from my TV (DVD, computer games) which now sound rather stark through a more revealing amp and speakers (I don't really know what a lot of the terms used refer to, eg what does an 'Expander' sound like?)

I guess I should speak to Tenson about the specifics. Right now I think I'm going to crash for a bit and stop thinking about hi-fi. Thanks for all the help.
 
gargal said:
What do people think about using a Tenson upgrade as a DAC? Quality wise, what sort of stand alone DAC would it be comparable to? I remember reading some positive reviews of the modded DEQ2496, but they were quite old, and I don't know if this is an area where technology's moving on.
Click to expand...
I've not had the pleasure so can't offer an opinion, other than to say that it is not bad in standard form.

gargal said:
I'm also wondering if some of the effects on the DEQ2496 could be used to soften the harshness of inputs from my TV (DVD, computer games) which now sound rather stark through a more revealing amp and speakers (I don't really know what a lot of the terms used refer to, eg what does an 'Expander' sound like?)
Click to expand...
Yes. Generally speaking, the most useful functions are the two EQ functions (PEQ & DEQ). I would be inclined to use the parametric (PEQ) for room correction (do this first), and the DEQ for adjusting response for different sources or recordings if you feel inclined.

gargal said:
I guess I should speak to Tenson about the specifics. Right now I think I'm going to crash for a bit and stop thinking about hi-fi. Thanks for all the help.
Click to expand...
Yep - best to chat with Tenson about the modifications. No point stressing about the hi-fi - the aim is to build something you can enjoy for a long time to come, so keep that in mind, take one step at a time and don't rush it, try to enjoy the process.

Stuart.
 
These are the questions I sent Tenson:


You mention the volume output being relatively high - could you approximate how much higher it is? 50%? Double? Thanks.

I'm thinking of running my CD players optical out to the DEQ, as well as my DJ mixer XLR outs to the XLR ins - my mixer will also be able to take other inputs, DVD etc. So I'll be needing to change settings very often - how easy is this to do? Push of a button? Push of a few buttons?

Also - how easy is it to set up different options? Can you go into a previously saved set-up, tinker about and then re-save, or do you need to re-do the whole process?

My new hi-fi is rather revealing of problems with source material (DVD, computer games, etc). Someone here mentioned that the DEQ has settings which should be able to soften some of those problems. Is that the case? Do you know how this would be done? (I'm afraid that I'm terrible at picking up terminology, so don't really understand what the options of the DEQ really mean, or what they'd sound like).

Could it also be that a relatively revealing hi-fi will make a DEQ sound rather crude and blunt in its alterations?

I'm also thinking about your mods, but I'm not exactly sure what they entail, what the differences between gold and platinum are, and how additional i/o's would be fitted. Bearing in mind that my hi-fi budget is dramatically dwindling, but also that I'm likely to be stuck with this set-up for the next 20 years, what would you suggest?

I was thinking of trying to get a DEQ cheap off e-bay - I could then have this sent directly to you. Would that be a problem?



And his answers:


Changing inputs is very easy. You go to the right menu (1 button push) then turn and push the big dial to select input.

The output on the lower level setting is about double that of a normal CD player.

The alterations the DEQ can make are very accurate. It just depends how you use it, if the changes are subtle or obvious.

It doesn't really soften problems in the source. It has a few options like an expander to un-do some heavily compressed CDs but it doesn't really work perfectly for that since yon eed to get the settings just right for the way the compression was done in the first place. It also has EQ of course so you could take out some midrange or sibilance frequency areas.

You can make pre-sets very easily. It has a menu for memory save and recall at the push of a button.

Sending a unit from eBay to me for mods is no problem.


I'm also considering getting some speaker isolators like these:

http://www.studiospares.com/Sound-Insulation/Auralex-Gramma-Support/invt/461180

Or else buying some platfoam and building some in the hope that this will resolve some of my booming problem. Has anyone done similar?

Currently my amp's still away, so I'm going to wait til that returns and have another listen.

Another advantage of the DEQ would be that I could have a 'late night' setting which tones down the bass for my neighbors - currently I just listen super quiet.

I'm pretty sure I will go for a DAQ, I just need to decide if I should get an upgraded one from Tenson and use that as a DAC instead of getting a new CD player.

Thanks all.
 
Anyone who wants to hear the Modded DEQ is welcome to visit my place in Gravesend. If there is interest I could always hold a bake-off.
 
I heard thst the deq is about 85% of the quality of the benchmark dac1, so should sound good IMO
 
danworth81 said:
I heard thst the deq is about 85% of the quality of the benchmark dac1, so should sound good IMO
Click to expand...

I don't really know anything about this, but...

My CD player has an optical output rather than coaxial. I've heard this is less good.

Also - how big a limiting factor do you think my CD player will be? How important is that side of things over the DAC?

I could always think of getting a second-hand cd player at some point.

Ta.
 
the quality of a transport can make a difference to the sound for sure.

thing is though, if you have one massive problem (really awful room acoustics) that will be masking so much, it will be difficult for you to hear improvements elsewhere.

that's been my experience of bad room acoustics.
 
Well, my amp will be ready for me to pick up tomorrow. I'm not sure when I'll have the time to get it and wire it up though. Apparently there was a dodgy component causing a crackle, and they've also taken down the gain by 10db. Along with some other tinkering they got hum with no input down to -105db (whatever that means).

Has anyone tried those Gramma speaker isolators before?

I'm thinking of putting up some book shelves in one of my alcoves, so that might help some room matters.

I think a significant problem with my room acoustics is the semi-wall I've got where the dining room and sitting room had previously been divided. I think that's going to be tricky to solve.

Thanks all.
 
But

danworth81 said:
I heard thst the deq is about 85% of the quality of the benchmark dac1, so should sound good IMO
Click to expand...

Simon's modded DEQ is more than 85% of a Benchmark. I heard both at Rob's DAC bake off the other year and I think everyone who was there would agree that any differences between them were quite small.
 
Hi again all.

I'm just about at the point of being able to move on again.

I've got my amp back, and it's much more useful with the gains reduced to an appropriate level for me. I'm therefore rather loath to have the DEQ2496's higher output make a problem for me again - some people have mentioned attaching an attenuator to the cables, do you mean something like this:

http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-10db-inline-attenuator/invt/568570/

Would that be appropriate? Is anyone able to suggest something preferable? Are attenuators likely to cause a problem with sound quality?

I suppose that I ideally want a cable that goes from XLR to RCA with an attenuator built in... I've not been able to find one. Is this likely to be too specific a desire to be mass produced?

Also, I'm going to be putting up some shelves for books, cds, hi-fi - and am thinking of combining this with some other hi-fi diy.

I'm thinking of building some speaker supports by sticking some concrete slabs on to this: http://www.studiospares.com/sound-insulation/auralex-platfoam-x1-piece/invt/461330/ and then covering the whole lot in carpet.

This is my own, perhaps crazy attempt, to come up with a combination of stability and isolation for my speakers. Reckon it might be worthwhile?

I'm also thinking of getting some 10cm thick 100 or 140 density stuff to make some triangular corner bass traps: http://www.noisestopsystems.co.uk/dense-fibre-matting-69.html

I contacted Auralex, and they advised me on positioning. I know some people think it's foolish to start placing bass traps without first having a way of measuring things, but from everything I've read it sounds like my room would benefit from some bass traps in the corner, and it shouldn't be too much trouble to just cut some triangles out and wrap them in fabric (lazy bass traps). There also a possibility that I could just fluke perfection, and then not need a DEQ at all.

Any words of wisdom?
 
Also...

I'm all new to using XLR cables, and a lot of them seem advertised as being for microphones. Would it be okay to use this to connect my mixer to the DEQ: http://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cam6bk.htm

And I remember someone saying that the way the XLR-RCA cables are wired is important, but I can't see these details advertised for the cables commercially available. Would something like this be okay: http://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cfu_15_mc.htm

Or will I need to contact the manufacturer to find out?

Thanks all.
 
gargal said:
benefit from some bass traps in the corner, and it shouldn't be too much trouble to just cut some triangles out and wrap them in fabric (lazy bass traps). There also a possibility that I could just fluke perfection, and then not need a DEQ at all.

Any words of wisdom?
Click to expand...

Simon (Tenson) did a thread a while ago that showed him using bass traps diffusors and absorbers to treat a room.

It would give you a good start.

Despite using about 8-10 panels and traps (and measuring equipment) Simon didn't achieve perfection, just a better result than he previously had.

The article describes it well..
you could search threads started by Tenson to try to find it.
 
bottleneck said:
Simon (Tenson) did a thread a while ago that showed him using bass traps diffusors and absorbers to treat a room.

It would give you a good start.
Click to expand...

Thanks bottleneck. I think I've already read that actually. Over the last couple of months I've done some intense lurking on these forums (and others), and been reading through a lot of other people's thoughts.

I feel like I end up forgetting it as fast as I read it, but surely some must be staying in there. Unfamiliar lingo seems the keenest to escape.

I'm just reading the Tenson bits on PFM now. Ta Rob.

With the DEQ, I am a bit concerned that adding attenuators might cause a problem, but I really have no experience of them and have had trouble finding info on these XLR attenuators for home hi-fi use.
 
Hi Gargal

There's a lot of 'crap' in hifi.. (both in stuff sold, but more often spoken) and the only way to shift through the murk is to try things out for yourself.

I try very hard not to speak about stuff I haven't used - you only fall on your face if speak beyond your limits. I've found that over the years.

buy cheap, try, make your own mind up, sell on.

There's thousands of us all over the country making our own conclusions.


The problem is - there's very few people out there (dealers) who are as knowledgeable on making a room perform to it's optimum as they are on the products they sell.

There are equally very few dealers I trust (at all) - SO many want to sell me boxes of shit that do f* all, or expensive wires to hook up said boxes of shit.

Hey there are great guys out there - and someone I may dismiss as being full of shit is the next person's hifi guru.

It's a crazy world.
 
bottleneck said:
buy cheap, try, make your own mind up, sell on.
Click to expand...

I've now realised this is the best way to do it...

but it's a lot of trouble! And I'm not sure I have the resources (time, money or energy) to really engage in that way.

I never wanted to see hi-fi as a hobby - I just wanted to spend a bit of extra cash I'd come into on a hi-fi that I could then enjoy for the next twenty years and would sound significantly better than what came before. I hadn't realised it would be so much trouble to get things right.

I thought of writing something about this in the 'Why aren't young people interested in hi-fi' thread.
 
Hi Gargal

It can be easy

Take for example these speakers - http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR220661

They come with amplifiers built in, and also a measurement microphone. It measures the room and adapts the output of the speakers to match the acoustic automatically.

All you need is that, and a source - a cd player, dvd player, a music streaming device - whatever.
 
bottleneck said:
Hi Gargal

It can be easy

Take for example these speakers - http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR220661

They come with amplifiers built in, and also a measurement microphone. It measures the room and adapts the output of the speakers to match the acoustic automatically.

All you need is that, and a source - a cd player, dvd player, a music streaming device - whatever.
Click to expand...

It's too late for that now!!

Going that route would have escaped some of the audiophile funny-ness that goes on, but most studio speakers I've heard don't really have the sound I'm after.

Anyway - I'm committed to hi-fi madness now as I've already bought an amp and speakers. (also - Hard to Find Records have a bit of a reputation for evil.)

Hopefully I'll be able to sort everything out without too much more effort and then live happily ever after.

Thanks anyway though.
 

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