Planning to buy an entirely new system.

Stuart said:
Yes. So long as the Tech has an optical out you can use it as a transport and the DEQ as a DAC, with or without the PEQ or other TLAs switched on. No need to spend money to replace the CD player when you have more fundamental issues to resolve first.

Stuart.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stuart. I have d/l-ed the instructions for the DEQ2496, but still wasn't clear on a few things. It's great to be able to ask someone who owns one.

Also, do would I be able to have two inputs going in (eg - optical for CD, rca-to-balanced for something else) and switch between them on the DEQ2496?

The DEQ2496 could also be used for my volume problem with the amp, but if I get one it will bring up the new problem of now tape loop. Hmm... there are ways around this which would involve lots of cables going around the place (my tuner and TV could go through my mixer) and it's quite possible I wouldn't want to use the DEQ for anything other than working to get my room better.

Also - do you have any particular type of microphone you'd suggest? Ta.

@ Dan: My new stuff certainly does work better with some music over others. I'm increasingly seeing the advantages of having gone a simpler route.
 
Well it looks like ur getting there gargal, hopefully the deq will do everything else u need in one box!

I have my gear up in the classifieds now so hopefully when I go all active its gunna be less of a headache and be far simpler!

Ur perseverance looks like it may pay off and at a lower price than u originally thought u may spend on gear and with the deq more effectively....thank god for forums hey! :)
 
I'm just reading up about the DEQ, and found this post. Is it going to increase my levels further?

oedipus said:
Good Morning Ladies,

OK, first the DEQ is an interesting gadget, but:

It's low high/pass parametric is somewhat limited by 6/12dB slopes.

The frequency setting in parametric mode is rather coarse: around 5Hz resolution @ 50Hz, which can making killing high Q peaks a bit hit and miss.

It operates at "pro" levels which are a tad hot for consumer gear.

The room analysis/correction feature has given me rather ugly results (and the mike, although good, isn't calibrated.)

Next, the DCX (crossover) is a good gadget with flexible routing and much better crossover options compared to the DEQ (sharper slopes and different alignment). You can add L+R to generate a signal for a sub, and you have 6 outputs to play with.

The DCX has digital and analog in, but only analog out (balanced at "pro" levels).

Next up. Behringer have made it easy to use single ended. You tether -ve to ground. This works on input and outputs, the outputs get a +6dB boost though.

To bring the levels back down for a consumer device, you can use the MX882 which is an 8 channel mixer splitter which can be configured to attenuate.

I use a CD transport(AES/EBU)->DEQ(AES/EBU)->DCX(balanced)->MX882(single-ended)->6 channel preamp.
Click to expand...

I just reading the whole thread (https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?t=5941&page=1) and there's quite a bit I don't really understand. Struggling on.

Good luck with your changes Dan, and thanks for all the advice so far.
 
Gargal - send a message to ''Tenson'' he sells audiophile modifified behringers.

given the severity of your problems - from what you are saying - this has to be worth a look.

He can answer your technial questions I am quite sure.
 
I'll post the questions I sent here too, in case anyone here know the answers Ta.

"One of the things mentioned is getting a DEQ2496, which could help me with some room trouble, and be used as a DAC for my aging CD player, and be used to reduce the volume of inputs going in to my amp (currently the gains on my amp are much to high for my listening preferences) all without costing me too much.

Would this all work?

Can you have a digital in from the CD player, and an alternative in from RCA-to-XLR? Is it easy to select between the two?

I had heard that the DEQ increases volume of inputs.

Also, is there a cheap microphone you'd especially suggest for the DEQ's measurement facilities?"
 
bottleneck said:
read the blurb - designed to be used with deq
Click to expand...

Thanks. I had spotted that one, I just had no idea if £44 was expensive or cheap for that sort of mic!

Would I need an XLR cable too (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/43782-dolphin-microphone-cable-xlr-f-to-xlr-m-6m.html ) ? Or do I need something different because of it being 'Phantom powered'?

(I'm terrible at remembering terminology, and that has been a problem with all this hi-fi stuff - thanks for all the assistance).
 
gargal said:
...would I be able to have two inputs going in (eg - optical for CD, rca-to-balanced for something else) and switch between them on the DEQ2496?
Click to expand...
Yes - I have both analogue and digital in set up on mine and use the DEQ to switch between the two different inputs

gargal said:
The DEQ2496 could also be used for my volume problem with the amp...
Click to expand...
Yes - however you may be better off getting the gain structure modified by the amp guys as outlined in your email from them. I say this as whilst the Behringer can be used to modify the gain structure, it does this in the digital domain so may impact system resolution if you try to make gross adjustments with it.

gargal said:
...but if I get one it will bring up the new problem of now tape loop. Hmm... there are ways around this which would involve lots of cables going around the place (my tuner and TV could go through my mixer) and it's quite possible I wouldn't want to use the DEQ for anything other than working to get my room better.
Click to expand...
If your tape loop doesn't have a monitor function, you could buy a simple analogue switch box to feed into the DEQ. Done this way, you would connect all analogue sources to the switch box, output of switch box to DEQ analogue in (XLR connectors) then DEQ analogue out (XLR connectors) to the amplifier. You would use the DEQ to select between it's analogue and digital inputs.

Stuart.
 
As to the question will a DEQ make the gain problems worse? Well, not in my experience. There is a small button on the back panel that selects between two different gain settings - make sure this is set to the lower figure. I don't get a change in volume when I switch the DEQ into circuit (all EQ and other gain changing settings flat of course).

Keep the questions coming - happy to help where I can. Hopefully Tenson is still working on these units and will be able to assist you.

Stuart.
 
gargal, check out this

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81764


If you asked Simon hed say use passive room treatment, and then digital eq if you have to cure a problem.

To get to that stage, you'd have to blow... depending on the room size £800-£1500 on room treatment bits...

I've blown about £1500, and could easily spend that again to make the room perfect.
 
I just thought I'd post Tenson's helpful reply, so everyone knows what he said (I don't expect he'd mind):

"You can indeed connect a digital and analog input to the DEQ and select between then very easily in the I/O (input/output) menu. You might need some RCA to XLR converter plugs but that's not an issue.

The output level, even in the lower setting is quite high for domestic gear. However, in the 'Util' menu there is a master gain control and you can adjust the level there. It can reduce resolution a little since it works in the digital domain, but given the processing is in 32-bit and you will only be feeding it a 16-bit signal from the Technics CD player, you can easily adjust by 6dB without noticing any problems.

Learning how to use EQ for correcting room issues can take a bit of time, so don't be disheartened if you don't get the results you want on day-1. It will probably take at least a full weekend of tinkering to get used to what changes on the EQ settings do to the sound.

Finally, in standard form the sound quality probably won't improve much on the CD player. Except, of course the EQ will make a big improvement. It is capable of superb quality with some changes that my business sells, so that gives you an upgrade path later on.

http://www.behringermods.com/

If you are near Gravesend in Kent you are welcome to come listen to my system, that happens to use a Technics SLPG something or other CD player in to the DEQ!"

Thanks for all the help people.

I've spent today slowly and painfully putting up Ikea stuff, so have had no time for hi-fi, but will get back on it once it's all done.
 
Just a quick comment to say its this type of good advice from u guys that makes me love this forum so much! AAHHHHHH :)

I agree that a gain decrease by the amp would be a better choice but whether its hardware of software related (which Leema said) is debateable?

What do u think Stuart?
 
danworth81 said:
Just a quick comment to say its this type of good advice from u guys that makes me love this forum so much! AAHHHHHH :)

I agree that a gain decrease by the amp would be a better choice but whether its hardware of software related (which Leema said) is debateable?

What do u think Stuart?
Click to expand...

Hi,

I really don't know enough about the Leema amp; however, if they are managing their gain structure in the analogue domain then I believe this would by prefereble to digitally attenuating in the DEQ. A software update may be for the control software for the amp - it doesn't necessarily mean that they are attenuating in the digital domain. You would really need to talk to the manufacturer about this - I doubt I'd recognise a Leema amp if I tripped over one :-)

Stuart.
 
Stuart said:
Hi,

I really don't know enough about the Leema amp; however, if they are managing their gain structure in the analogue domain then I believe this would by prefereble to digitally attenuating in the DEQ. A software update may be for the control software for the amp - it doesn't necessarily mean that they are attenuating in the digital domain. You would really need to talk to the manufacturer about this - I doubt I'd recognise a Leema amp if I tripped over one :-)

Stuart.
Click to expand...

I think the programming would affect the way the digital volume control interacts with the amp. The volume control is a funny one.

From Tenson's reply it seems that the DEQ2496 would not contribute much as a DAC for improving sound quality, and would probably make the volume problem worse.

To me, it sounds like I shouldn't get one unless I decide to have the amp altered.

It could be worth me putting some bass traps in corners, and seeing if this helps before deciding on the DEQ2496. From what I've read, bass traps in corners are really unlikely to make a room's acoustics any worse. It will be a pain, but I need to put some shelves up, so I could try to combine the two.

I'm also thinking of putting bookshelves in my empty alcove, as this sounds likely to help (and I need the storage!)

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm destroyed by another day of Ikea (especially bad knowing that these cupboards were a lot of my hi-fi money) but still progressing slowly here.
 
Hi,

I'm really not sure how to help at this point.

It sounds, from what you've been saying, that the root of the problem is room acoustics (gain issues with the amplifier not withstanding). Devices like the Behringer are not a perfect solution, however they can be relatively affordable and effective. Perhaps you can borrow or hire one and try it out? Perhaps buy one second hand and move it on for little or no loss if you don't like it?

A full acoustic treatment for your room may well be a better solution, but to do that properly would mean bringing in an expert and stumping up for a reasonable spend. The alternative being knocking up a couple of bass traps or whatever and hoping they make a positive difference. I'd be reluctant to spend serious (ie. don't blow the rest of you budget) money on this without fully understanding the problem and how to solve it (eg. at what frequencies are you experiencing issues? Magnitude?).

It is certainly worth investigating room treatment options; however, I'd caution against letting the perfect become the enemy of the good enough.

Regards,

Stuart.
 
I think Stuarts point is a good one.

If the behringer lets you know you have a 80hz suck out of 10db, then you can investigate why, and have the option of treating that passively with room acoustics - and measuring it afterwards.

For that reason alone, they pay for themselves.

A laptop with software and a mic would tell you the same, but not let you fix it of course.
 
The reasons I'm hesitant about the DEQ2496 since hearing from Tenson:

It will increase the problem I have to volume control.

My amp has no tape monitor so I'll have a limited ability to use it for lots of sources if it is helpful.

I tend to listen to music moving to different positions, and often with my g/f - sometimes together, sometimes in two different positions.

It won't improve CD quality by acting as a DAC.

Even second hand it will end up costing £200 with a mic (and my hi-fi budget has recently been eaten up a bit at Ikea. I may also need another hundred to get my amp's volume control altered.)

re botching bass traps about: I understand what you mean. With no accurate means of measuring what I'm doing, it would be difficult to consistently improve things. but... from what I've read it sounds as if the type of 'high bass' I'm currently bothered by is the sort which would be improved with cheap home-made bassbins in the corners. There is a danger that I'd miss the frequency that's most problematic, and end up sucking out the frequency above, making things even worse. I don't know how likely that would be.

@ Bottleneck: re software and a mic - would I be able to use free software? What sort of mic? If I could get a cheap way of measuring what was going on, that would give me a better idea as to how I should move forward.

Sorry - I know I'm dithering about a bit. I think I was a bit too speedy with my earlier decisions, and now my cash is running low I'm getting the fear.
 
You need a laptop with a decent sound card able to accept a good external mic.
For software you can use Arta which is a free download and will perform the functions needed in demo mode.
The Behringer 8000 mic is good enough for this purpose - there is 1 or 2 db of variation from flat at the very top end on the mic but that isn't significant and can be corrected in the software if you must.

Ideally, borrow the stuff.
 
Ugh - feeling really run down after a couple of days doing Ikea stuff.

I've now noticed the amp humming out the speakers (quite loud) when there's no source coming in. I guess I'm going to have to take it back (it's seven days old today). This hi-fi malarky is so much more trouble than I thought it would be.

Thanks rob - I've got balanced mic ins on my mixer, so could run through to my soundcard. That would throw things off a bit... I could take a measurement when there's no sound, and try to account for that?

Or buy a mini-system?

edit - anyone know if I have a right to a refund? Sevenoaks let you return for credit within 10 days, but it would be nice not to be tied down to one store. Thanks.
 

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