Technics SL1200/1210 debate

Hi Steven,

How many times have you heard the Technics turntable? How many different versions have you heard?

As someone with no turntable, it will be interesting to know.

SCIDB
 
SCIDB said:
Here are some pictures
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Ah yes, I remember that system now - didn't pay attention to the source at the time.

Too loud or not, it seems to me quite uncharitable to criticise it. It's easy to sit here and pick holes, but everyone who exhibited went to a great deal more effort than most people there could be arsed with and that alone deserves a little respect IMHO.
 
David Price said:
posters (who post in good faith) in the stocks and chucking old cabbage at 'em?
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I think when someone who doesn't possess any vinyl, and rarely listens to any turntables, posts hyperbole about a Technics (and one which has been exhibited publicly to no general acclaim) then eyebrows might be raised, as well as questions.
 
Call me cynical, but I'm beginning to think there are some here interested in talking turntables, and others simply winding people up - not interested in the subject matter at all...
 
Congratulations, David. Welcome to the world of James McPeake, a.k.a 'Blzebub'/'The Devil'. He exists on forums for no other purpose, and hasn't done since the day he first starting posting on them nearly nine years ago.

Rather sad isn't it?
 
lbr said:
Ah yes, I remember that system now - didn't pay attention to the source at the time.

Too loud or not, it seems to me quite uncharitable to criticise it. It's easy to sit here and pick holes, but everyone who exhibited went to a great deal more effort than most people there could be arsed with and that alone deserves a little respect IMHO.
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Hi lbr,

My main criticism was the use of the speakers. They didn't own the speakers. Everyone else brought their own to show.

I had a system up and running at the show which so I know how hectic the day was.

A number of people did say it was too loud at times at the show. this spoiled the sound for them. I don't see how this is disrespectful.

SCIDB
 
David Price said:
I take it you're not as into magnetic tape as you are into vinyl then? You can get cassette to sound very very good if you know how. I don't, but I know a few folk who do. Which is why I've moved away from digital recording back to analogue. I accept that most can't get cassette to sound as good as my 'gurus' though, so I'll shut up about it. It's off topic! But once again, don't dismiss something you've not heard! It seems a popular pursuit on this forum. Someone says something, and then everyone's hurling loads of rotten eggs at it. Is there no room for debate here, so when someone say something, the response is, "why?" or "how", rather than "that's a load of cr*p!" that invariably comes back? Aren't people up for exploring new (or challenging) ideas, on zerogain, or is it just for putting posters (who post in good faith) in the stocks and chucking old cabbage at 'em?
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David,

If you're referring to my comments...I (and others) can get cassette to sound good; however, they do not come close to the quality available with decent digital transcriptions regardless of source, tape formulation or cassette deck.

I left records behind a long time ago as well. Nothing wrong with them, I simply prefer the sound of good digital.

Personally, I've found live FM broadcasts often beats all commercially available media.

regards,

dave
 
It was my idea to use Heco Statements to showcase the electronics that belonged to us in that particular rather large room. My own Hecos are similar but somewhat smaller. As I could not bring my room to the show it seemed perfectly reasonable to use a pair that stood a better chance of driving that room.

The speakers-first brigade obviously took umbrage because it seemed like we had some kind of unfair advantage. I wasn't aware that it was a competition, but still....

I must confess that the speakers were not the only borrowed item in use in our system. We also borrowed a mains filter from Anthony who made the two power amps and my pre. We did not want our system to trip up on noisy mains.
 
SCIDB said:
...A number of people did say it was too loud at times at the show. this spoiled the sound for them. I don't see how this is disrespectful.
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Hi SCIDB, all fair points; my comments were in no way aimed at you (nor at any other specific individual). Sorry, it did come across that way as I quoted you in my post - not my intention, your pictures just jogged my (aural) memory of the room.

>PS I recall visiting and enjoying your room also - hope to hear you again next year
 
Steven Toy said:
Jon I was trying to concede a little point to James but I wish I had not bothered tbh. I guess unmodified Sony is going to be neither better nor worse than Naim, just preferable if the Naim house sound midway up their range sounds more than a little contrived.

After 14+ pages with James Mc Peake I am being dragged down to his level and for this I humbly apologise. True to say I really should hear ES Sony kit before I pass any judgement on it.
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Hi Steven

No apology really necessary as no deep offence was taken. I just feel that it is too easy in the HiFi scene to get sucked into brand names and prejudice either for or against, and that is about consumerism rather than sound per se IMHO.

Best Regards

Jon...:)
 
blackdog said:
...I'm the Elitist?"

Is your classical musician's opinion worth more than a housewife who can't whistle a tune but prefers something over Sony?
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Everyone knows what they like in terms of sound.

In the absense of any concensus amongst audiophiles as to what rates as better sound, as against just 'good' sound, or heaven forbid, some sort of absolute standard to at least aim for, and to which no audiophile will agree, I tend to find the thoughts and opinions of professionals with tertiary training, qualifications and professional experience in the field, to be the most reliably objective when it comes to assessing sound quality of HiFi on not just a good, better, best scale, but rather does it reproduce the recorded musical event as accurately as possible, taking into account a multitude of disciplines as regards music and sound reproduction to ensure the most natural, believable and realistic result.

Subjectively, a classical musicians opinion is worth nothing more than a housewife who can't whistle a tune but prefers brand X over brand Y that the classical musician may prefer.

Subjectively, an audiophiles opinion is worth nothing more than a housewife who can't whistle a tune but prefers Bose over a brand such as Linn/Naim that the audiophile may prefer.

However, the audiophile is highly unlikely to accept this, and will dismiss the housewifes opinion as irrelevant, as 'everyone' knows Bose is crap, and besides, a housewife who can't whistle a tune is obviously in need of being taught how to listen etc.
In other words, audiophiles have a really bad tendency to adopt subjective viewpoints as absolute truth, and go about evangelising, or using ridicule or other methods to avoid facing up to the reality that their (often collective) viewpoint is purely subjective, and nothing more.

I am interested in the art of high fidelity as it was originally meant, and genuine advancements in that art, rather than merely listening to kit designed to please by offering some sort of flavour that once used to be achieved by tone controls, but now by brand of amp, type of cable, stand used, etc etc. and tailored to suit a particular house sound and brand fan club.

Hence, if I want an as objective opinion as to sound that I can get, I will ask a professional, and that is not a dealer, nor is it an audiophile, but rather an tertiary trained and qualified classical recording engineer, or a tertiary trained and qualified classical musician, several of whom are amongst my friends. If that seems elitist to you, then I apologise as no sense of it was intended; I just want to gain the most objective and truthful assessment of sound quality as I can when I audition and assess kit.

Best regards

Jon..:)
 
Some selective editing seems to have occurred when splitting the threads. Protecting the guru from his own stupidity?
 
David Price said:
I take it you're not as into magnetic tape as you are into vinyl then? You can get cassette to sound very very good if you know how. I don't, but I know a few folk who do. Which is why I've moved away from digital recording back to analogue. I accept that most can't get cassette to sound as good as my 'gurus' though, so I'll shut up about it. It's off topic! But once again, don't dismiss something you've not heard! It seems a popular pursuit on this forum. Someone says something, and then everyone's hurling loads of rotten eggs at it. Is there no room for debate here, so when someone say something, the response is, "why?" or "how", rather than "that's a load of cr*p!" that invariably comes back? Aren't people up for exploring new (or challenging) ideas, on zerogain, or is it just for putting posters (who post in good faith) in the stocks and chucking old cabbage at 'em?
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Hi David

Likewise - I could never get tape to sound sufficiently good that I felt it would compare to a ripped CD on a CDR.

Perhaps there is something they know that we don't in order to make tape sound great?

I certainly feel that reel to reel is a different basket of eggs so to speak.. and if I wanted to get back into analogue recording a big reel to reel deck would be the way to go.

...all that 'rewinding' and 'fast forwarding' though :S I never want to do that again....it was SUCH a pain in the ass...
 
I have heard the KAB version/stock arm maybe 6 or 7 times at Marco's, each time for a couple of hours and also at a couple of DIY shows before Scalford, the KAB version/Jelco arm a couple of times and the Timestep once.

I have also heard the above deck in its various guises with several different combinations of speakers and amps both ss and valve including my own kit.

I have also heard another friend's unmodified SL1700.

Between 1999 and 2003 I also had two Rega decks of my own, a Planar 2 and a Planar 25.

At other peoples houses and in dealer dem rooms I have heard many different turntables and I still state that the Dave Cawley Technics that Marco has is the most consistent and involving listen yet. In a tune dem Linns would come second to my ears. On that note (scuse pun) I take it you think Gilad Tiefenbrun is less biased and a greater authority than David Price.
 

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