Technics SL1200/1210 debate

Steven Toy said:
Dave, it is a no-brainer.
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Sorry Steven, my experience tells me you can't magically transform the basic character of a TT by changing its power supply, arm or cartridge. A Technics turntable isn't going to break the rules any more than a Linn, etc.

Relying on memory to compare products is foolish and will lead to a wrong assumption. You might get lucky once or twice but it will be due to luck and it will catch up with you if you use this methodology for judging/buying equipment.

regards,

dave
 
YNMOAN said:
I have also heard a lot of LP12's but unlike Steven I would not say that they had "rather consistent and inherent characteristics" (older models perhaps). Indeed, part of the problem with this deck is how different the various levels of trim can sound. The Radikal and Keel have, in particular, altered its presentation to such a point that many who like the 'traditional' Linn sound may no longer like it.
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Mark, that is very much my view also.
I like choices and for me the mid/late 80s LP12 is 'the' LP12 experience.
Far from perfect certainly but it sounds distinctive in a good and enjoyable way. All that has come after seems to be an exercise in tightening and dragging the LP12 closer to modern TTs. That is fine as preferences differ wildly, but I just don't regard the modern take on the LP12 as a 'Linn'.
I bet if I were to fit a Troika or Karma to my P9 it would sound quite close to a modern Linn - still quite distinct compared to the older versions though.
 
If you're relying on memory to accurately assess the difference between two products, you're making a huge mistake.
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Dave, what do you make of 'accurately assessing' two products (turntables) when a) you haven't actually heard one of them - ever, and b) the other you've only heard in a record shop or a club playing 'boom-shaka-lack' with a £20 Stanton cartridge tracking at 27g?

What do you make of that kind of malarkey? ;)

You've never even owned a turntable, Steven... {Blah, blah, blather}...

<Snip> And when you finally got the chance to exhibit something that's allegedly really, really good... {Waffle, waffle, dribble}...
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What's that Average White Band song? "Let's go round again, maybe we'll turn back the hands of time...."

Sing along everyone!
 
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Steven,

It's "dave-Plywood King" from PFM and naimland FWIW.

I haven't compared your specific modified version but I have compared hundreds of modified TTs over the past thirty years including my own 1100-As and an SP-10. They don't cut it in any shape or form compared to a fruitbox.

Off to get lunch but I will be back...
 
Dave, the key bit there is this:

I haven't compared your specific modified version...
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So therefore you wouldn't know what, say, a Time Step PSU'd 1210 with a Jelco tonearm is capable of, sonically.

Other than that I wouldn't for a second dispute the perfectly valid experience you've outlined. At least it's based on something real.
 
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Steven Toy said:
James I was aware that the volume was too high. I turned it down several times.
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Hi Steven (I think this post actually was written by Steven)

So, would you lay the blame for the cock-up with your co-exhibitor? [And do you think it's wise to allow this well-known bad-tempered hothead to post from your account here?]
 
...I hate to press you for an answer, Steven, as it seems discourteous. But it's a very simple question. Either your co-exhibitor turned the volume up too much, or you did, so who dunnit? Reading between the lines, I suspect it wasn't you.

You could always say that someone wearing blinkers unwittingly sat on a remote control, several times. That would get the pair of you off the hook.
 
There's nothing to answer, James. We're going round and round in circles achieving nothing. You've got a short memory. "Off the hook"? I think you need to have a lie down.

Have you conveniently forgotten the time when you were accused of doing precisely the same thing (playing music far too loudly) when fox et al came round to visit once? I still remember your hissy fit with much fondness when they all took the piss :D
 
Sorry guys - I shouldn't have opened up that cassette deck can of worms. I can defend (or elucidate on) my comments, but I won't 'cos the strand's already a little off beam. :-)

Will someone please tell me what a 'fruitbox' is?
 
An LP12. Ironically, I believe that it was James who coined the phrase!

He has an unhealthy habit of slagging off the equipment he once used. You know the sort: when you've got it, it's the best thing in the world, and when you sell it for something else, all of a sudden what used to be great becomes 'broken' ;)
 
Steven Toy said:
Have you conveniently forgotten the time when you were accused of doing precisely the same thing (playing music far too loudly) when fox et al came round to visit once? I still remember your hissy fit with much fondness when they all took the piss :D
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Yes, I've "forgotten", because it never took place.

Steven, you know that your bilious friend Marco Pieraccini is banned from this forum. I really don't think it's fair to let him use your account here. The posts written by him are so different from your own style.
 
Steven Toy said:
An LP12. Ironically, I believe that it was James who coined the phrase!

He has an unhealthy habit of slagging off the equipment he once used. You know the sort: when you've got it, it's the best thing in the world, and when you sell it for something else, all of a sudden what used to be great becomes 'broken' ;)
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No, I didn't coin that phrase, and no, I do not refer to the LP12 (or anything else) as "broken". It's a stupid description. When I upgrade, though, I upgrade.
 
Steven Toy said:
Oh yes it did take place, you just don't want to remember it. No matter, we'll move on as this thread is supposed to be about the Technics.
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It was actually Alan and stumo who turned the volume up so loud that several of us, myself included, left the room, Marco. There was no distortion, though.
 
Hi,

Here are some pictures of the "loud" Technics system from the show.

Scalford_hall_01_03_20090014.JPG


Scalford_hall_01_03_20090012.JPG


Even though I was at the show, I didn't get to hear the system. I did talk to some people who thought it was too loud.

SCIDB
 
Unfortunately neither the ALPS Black Beauty in the Croft pre of Marco's at the time nor the DACT stepped attenuator in my AOS grounded grid pre were equipped with a motorised pot so no remote in either case.

Also, it is worth noting that push/pull valve amps tend neither to go into into harsh odd order harmonic distortion mode like ss amps nor do they just fall apart like single ended amps. They tend to become slightly harsh and lose out on dynamics which was something I did notice.

We were both guilty of driving both our amps as hard as we could reasonably get away with in what was a very large room. With variations in gain between different sources (we had 3) and discs recorded at different levels it was easier than you realise to tip the volume slightly over the edge and yes I did notice on each occasion that it happened.

I know I was the one backing off on the volume on hearing the harshness but it would be unfair to point the finger at anyone for allowing it to happen in the first place. Remember also that the AOS room was not just Marco and me. There were five of us in total and up to 25 or so people in there at times.
 
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Back to normal. I think you should change your password, now, Steven. The abusive & hostile tone in some recent posts reflects very badly on you.

A diplomatic answer, at least. The remote explanation was unnecessary as I was joking.
 
I take it you're not as into magnetic tape as you are into vinyl then? You can get cassette to sound very very good if you know how. I don't, but I know a few folk who do. Which is why I've moved away from digital recording back to analogue. I accept that most can't get cassette to sound as good as my 'gurus' though, so I'll shut up about it. It's off topic! But once again, don't dismiss something you've not heard! It seems a popular pursuit on this forum. Someone says something, and then everyone's hurling loads of rotten eggs at it. Is there no room for debate here, so when someone say something, the response is, "why?" or "how", rather than "that's a load of cr*p!" that invariably comes back? Aren't people up for exploring new (or challenging) ideas, on zerogain, or is it just for putting posters (who post in good faith) in the stocks and chucking old cabbage at 'em?
 

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