Hi guys, thank you all so much for all of the replies so far however I have not told you what music I like or what I am looking for from a system and manufacturer, new but pref second hand. Having read some of the threads here to try and find out what you guys look for and how you listen to systems I thought that I needed to do a new thread, especially after reading the entire 18 page one from Oct 2007 on music vs hifi!
What I want is a system that enables me to hear exactly the detail the mastering engineer heard when the piece was mastered. I know that this is impossible but it is what I am aiming at, if I can get 50% there then I will be happy. I do not want to hear the hifi system I want to hear the music. If listening live to a piano I want to hear it as though it was in the room and know which brand it was. If an electric guitar I should be able to tell a Tele from a Strat and whether it was a Boss CE-1 that was used or not. I have never heard a 'forward sounding' guitar or cymbal live but have done so many times on hifi - unacceptable. Detail means both the level of information recorded and that the detail is accurately produced.
I know what so many instruments and effects sound like and it is so frustrating not to hear this level of detail.
Now you know the level of detail that I want, how do I want it? I do not want it thrust at me Bel Canto style (great detail though). Whilst the Quad II-forty power amp delivery was tonally accurate it was a little too much laid back. The Audio Reference/Krell 400 presentation was about right but the Krell was not tonally accurate (drums sounded boxy unlike the Quad).
In terms of scale I prefer omni directional like the Shahinians and Quad 2905 but am not adverse to a 'normal' speaker. (I listen as I am doing things as well as just sitting down so a 'sweet spot' seating position does not really do it for me.) I prefer a larger scale than the SF Amator II produce and was happy with the scale of the 2905, WB ACT and LSA L2 Towers. The speakers will be in a room 20'x25'. The room will be treated. All Equipment will sit on Hutter racks. I expect interconnects to be a small percentage of the budget and just to tweek an inherently correct sound.
The look of the electronics is irrelevant as they will be hidden from view. The speakers must look fantastic (floorstanders only) - design cue is Bentley Arnage or Aston DB9 not Caterham 7 or Noble!
You may be wondering about things like boogie factor etc? My answer is this. If I record a violin it sounds like a violin on playback. If I record a tele through a fuzz poedal it rocks out on playback as well. A decent system should be able to do chamber music to Motorhead. If systems cannot do this they are not accurate. If compromises have to be made then the majority of music that I listen to has either an instrumental or vocal 'performance'; it is rythmic and expressive.
Gear that I have liked/disliked:
WB ACT - dynamic and accurate
2905 - accurate, perhaps more expressive midband but not as dynamic
Naim (4 years ago) toe tappingly good but too forward and unlistenable after 20 minutes.
Hutter and Isoblu racks - natural, dynamic, detailed - Mana too forward leading edges, harsh, not enough detail.
Accustic Arts - overall many strengths, draws you in but not enough detail - Ayon more detail but flatter delivery.
Bel Canto - strangled music and made several CDs sound harsh, thin and compressed.
Manufacturers must still be in business and likely to stay in business and have a good reputation for reliability with a service operation in the UK - MEG probably out of the picture then. Build quaility must be excellent. Would prefer to go with a longstanding brand with a good reputation rather than a cottage industry eg Meadowlark went bust but Wilson Benesch are still going strong.
Forget my requirement for a DAC and multi room I have another plan for that this is just for stereo replay of CDs.
Music I like to listen to: Goldfrapp, Air, Genesis, Roxy Music, Matt Munro, Sinatra, Herbie Hancock, Santana, Weather Report, Bill Evans, Jobim, Heatwave, Jacksons, Bill Nelson, David Sylvian, Mozart, Vivaldi, Numan, Vangelis, Marvin Gaye, Prince, Mark de Clive Lowe, Jose Padilla, 70s Bowie, Police.
I know that this is a very specific brief but then everyone has a specific brief dont they!
What I want is a system that enables me to hear exactly the detail the mastering engineer heard when the piece was mastered. I know that this is impossible but it is what I am aiming at, if I can get 50% there then I will be happy. I do not want to hear the hifi system I want to hear the music. If listening live to a piano I want to hear it as though it was in the room and know which brand it was. If an electric guitar I should be able to tell a Tele from a Strat and whether it was a Boss CE-1 that was used or not. I have never heard a 'forward sounding' guitar or cymbal live but have done so many times on hifi - unacceptable. Detail means both the level of information recorded and that the detail is accurately produced.
I know what so many instruments and effects sound like and it is so frustrating not to hear this level of detail.
Now you know the level of detail that I want, how do I want it? I do not want it thrust at me Bel Canto style (great detail though). Whilst the Quad II-forty power amp delivery was tonally accurate it was a little too much laid back. The Audio Reference/Krell 400 presentation was about right but the Krell was not tonally accurate (drums sounded boxy unlike the Quad).
In terms of scale I prefer omni directional like the Shahinians and Quad 2905 but am not adverse to a 'normal' speaker. (I listen as I am doing things as well as just sitting down so a 'sweet spot' seating position does not really do it for me.) I prefer a larger scale than the SF Amator II produce and was happy with the scale of the 2905, WB ACT and LSA L2 Towers. The speakers will be in a room 20'x25'. The room will be treated. All Equipment will sit on Hutter racks. I expect interconnects to be a small percentage of the budget and just to tweek an inherently correct sound.
The look of the electronics is irrelevant as they will be hidden from view. The speakers must look fantastic (floorstanders only) - design cue is Bentley Arnage or Aston DB9 not Caterham 7 or Noble!
You may be wondering about things like boogie factor etc? My answer is this. If I record a violin it sounds like a violin on playback. If I record a tele through a fuzz poedal it rocks out on playback as well. A decent system should be able to do chamber music to Motorhead. If systems cannot do this they are not accurate. If compromises have to be made then the majority of music that I listen to has either an instrumental or vocal 'performance'; it is rythmic and expressive.
Gear that I have liked/disliked:
WB ACT - dynamic and accurate
2905 - accurate, perhaps more expressive midband but not as dynamic
Naim (4 years ago) toe tappingly good but too forward and unlistenable after 20 minutes.
Hutter and Isoblu racks - natural, dynamic, detailed - Mana too forward leading edges, harsh, not enough detail.
Accustic Arts - overall many strengths, draws you in but not enough detail - Ayon more detail but flatter delivery.
Bel Canto - strangled music and made several CDs sound harsh, thin and compressed.
Manufacturers must still be in business and likely to stay in business and have a good reputation for reliability with a service operation in the UK - MEG probably out of the picture then. Build quaility must be excellent. Would prefer to go with a longstanding brand with a good reputation rather than a cottage industry eg Meadowlark went bust but Wilson Benesch are still going strong.
Forget my requirement for a DAC and multi room I have another plan for that this is just for stereo replay of CDs.
Music I like to listen to: Goldfrapp, Air, Genesis, Roxy Music, Matt Munro, Sinatra, Herbie Hancock, Santana, Weather Report, Bill Evans, Jobim, Heatwave, Jacksons, Bill Nelson, David Sylvian, Mozart, Vivaldi, Numan, Vangelis, Marvin Gaye, Prince, Mark de Clive Lowe, Jose Padilla, 70s Bowie, Police.
I know that this is a very specific brief but then everyone has a specific brief dont they!
