What £20k system would you chose against this criteria?

Hi guys, thank you all so much for all of the replies so far however I have not told you what music I like or what I am looking for from a system and manufacturer, new but pref second hand. Having read some of the threads here to try and find out what you guys look for and how you listen to systems I thought that I needed to do a new thread, especially after reading the entire 18 page one from Oct 2007 on music vs hifi!

What I want is a system that enables me to hear exactly the detail the mastering engineer heard when the piece was mastered. I know that this is impossible but it is what I am aiming at, if I can get 50% there then I will be happy. I do not want to hear the hifi system I want to hear the music. If listening live to a piano I want to hear it as though it was in the room and know which brand it was. If an electric guitar I should be able to tell a Tele from a Strat and whether it was a Boss CE-1 that was used or not. I have never heard a 'forward sounding' guitar or cymbal live but have done so many times on hifi - unacceptable. Detail means both the level of information recorded and that the detail is accurately produced.

I know what so many instruments and effects sound like and it is so frustrating not to hear this level of detail.

Now you know the level of detail that I want, how do I want it? I do not want it thrust at me Bel Canto style (great detail though). Whilst the Quad II-forty power amp delivery was tonally accurate it was a little too much laid back. The Audio Reference/Krell 400 presentation was about right but the Krell was not tonally accurate (drums sounded boxy unlike the Quad).

In terms of scale I prefer omni directional like the Shahinians and Quad 2905 but am not adverse to a 'normal' speaker. (I listen as I am doing things as well as just sitting down so a 'sweet spot' seating position does not really do it for me.) I prefer a larger scale than the SF Amator II produce and was happy with the scale of the 2905, WB ACT and LSA L2 Towers. The speakers will be in a room 20'x25'. The room will be treated. All Equipment will sit on Hutter racks. I expect interconnects to be a small percentage of the budget and just to tweek an inherently correct sound.

The look of the electronics is irrelevant as they will be hidden from view. The speakers must look fantastic (floorstanders only) - design cue is Bentley Arnage or Aston DB9 not Caterham 7 or Noble!

You may be wondering about things like boogie factor etc? My answer is this. If I record a violin it sounds like a violin on playback. If I record a tele through a fuzz poedal it rocks out on playback as well. A decent system should be able to do chamber music to Motorhead. If systems cannot do this they are not accurate. If compromises have to be made then the majority of music that I listen to has either an instrumental or vocal 'performance'; it is rythmic and expressive.

Gear that I have liked/disliked:

WB ACT - dynamic and accurate
2905 - accurate, perhaps more expressive midband but not as dynamic
Naim (4 years ago) toe tappingly good but too forward and unlistenable after 20 minutes.
Hutter and Isoblu racks - natural, dynamic, detailed - Mana too forward leading edges, harsh, not enough detail.
Accustic Arts - overall many strengths, draws you in but not enough detail - Ayon more detail but flatter delivery.
Bel Canto - strangled music and made several CDs sound harsh, thin and compressed.

Manufacturers must still be in business and likely to stay in business and have a good reputation for reliability with a service operation in the UK - MEG probably out of the picture then. Build quaility must be excellent. Would prefer to go with a longstanding brand with a good reputation rather than a cottage industry eg Meadowlark went bust but Wilson Benesch are still going strong.

Forget my requirement for a DAC and multi room I have another plan for that this is just for stereo replay of CDs.

Music I like to listen to: Goldfrapp, Air, Genesis, Roxy Music, Matt Munro, Sinatra, Herbie Hancock, Santana, Weather Report, Bill Evans, Jobim, Heatwave, Jacksons, Bill Nelson, David Sylvian, Mozart, Vivaldi, Numan, Vangelis, Marvin Gaye, Prince, Mark de Clive Lowe, Jose Padilla, 70s Bowie, Police.

I know that this is a very specific brief but then everyone has a specific brief dont they!

 

Are you going to be playing just cd's?

 

Thanks Tenson, I use these, know them well but do not want anything on stands for cosmetic and sound reasons. KMR are probably the ultimate high end proaudio dealer.

What complete system would you chose. Sticking with the Cambridge CDP? That Musical something pre-amp you mentioned sounds intersting but not sure if they meet my criteria or not.

 

For these purposes yes. I may ormay not go back to T/T but it would mean building another LP collection so this is a year or two away and only if CD is seriously lacking. Aparently Audio Research CD3 sounds like a T/T but I have not verified this.

 

I'd be inclined to checkout a dem of a pair of active ATCs, fronted by something like an Esoteric X01, which IIRC has a built in volume control, meaning that you wouldn't even need a pre-amp.
As a system, about as simple as they good, and from what I've heard, should be stronkingly good.

 

But ACTs look terrible, no way in the lounge - more Noble and much less Aston! They sound great but thanks anyway.

 

I would seriously suggest listening to some Merlin speakers if you get the chance.

 

Thanks Neil, they have been getting a few recommendations but what would you put them with?

 

System as follows: Music First Reference pre: £7895 (this is the hifi section of Stevens and Bilington who have been in business for nearly 40 years.


Pioneer S1 EX loudspeakers these have been developed from the TAD reference 1 monitors: £4800


or Reference 3a Grand Veena £7500 they have just won The Absolute Sound Magazine Editors choice awards.


MSB pltimum DAC without Volume Control £3500


Air Tight ATM 2 about £8K Air Tight is a japanese firm who started off Luxman then sold it to Alpine. This is now a second generation company who has been around for over 70 years.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply. Have you actually heard this system and do you know where I can get it from? I notice that you are a dealer so would that be from you? I am finding that distributor sites and dealer sites do not always tally! Thanks D

 

Its a long story but my assistant died in a motorcycle accident a few months ago and took all the codes with him. I have since been battling with the ISP or who ever it is to release the codes so i can start again.

I can arrange for you to listen to this equipment but who you buy it from is your choice. I have the Veenas the MSB in stock, i can arrange with Pioneer, Johnathan Billington is a close personal friend so I can arrange for you to have a listen, Valve amps no problem.

This is my room from last April and not a glass shel in sight



Thats me in the 70's Fila top nursing a hangover and trying to cope with the Clash Dub Reggae I was playing

 

I demoed them late in '06 at AVLAND and at that time they had them for just under £4k.

EDIT: Yep still the same price.

Nice speakers BTW.

 

Source - I'd suggest an Abingdon Research CD 77 :
http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/Templates/cd77.htm

Amplification in your price range I'm not confident enough to recommend - Merlin themselves have used Joule Electra valve amps but I'm unsure of any European dealers. I'm using a 6550 push pull valve amp with mine, which is fine.

 

The reason why I asked complete system is because in this thread you only mentioned the ProAcs; I was wondering what you would partner them with. Even though I had no criteria at all in the previous thread and in this thread have been very specific, you have still recommended the same system.....interesting, it is the music that I want to hear and not the system. I can only think of one pro person who owns Behringer - its very, very, very budget, (I am being kind) and he is the editor of a well known trade mag! Your pre-amp recommendation is certainly on my list of must listen to though!

 

Hello Shin,

I didn't realise AV land had them in stock. Pioneer only got a pair summer just gone. I'm amazed at the price because they are a beautifully made speaker.

Hello Tenson,

the reference is much much better then the standard. I was at the factory at midnight when the first production prototype was made. We tried it and it surprised Harry, Johnathan and myself just how much better it was. Anyhow the Standard copper and Silver Music First pre amps excellent and award winners.

For Wilson, AR, SF and other Absolute Sounds gear then the Dealer to go to IMO is Pinewood Music, They have a vast knowledge of their equipment. Brian and Alison are lovely people.

 

I am not sure about source, but if I had the money and room, I would be very tempted with either B&W 801D or PMC BB5 with a Bryston 14Bsst and either a Music First Passive (Silver would be tempting) or a Tact RCS 2.2xp.

How much would that leave for a source?

 

Avland had them on demo late '06(about October/November time I believe it was). Back then I started a thread on here about them and other speakers of interested around the price point I wanted to pay. I had a £3k budget but could just about stretch to the Pioneers with a little saving and, of course, if they were suitably impressive. Unfortunately I'm a DIY'er at heart and that means I'm a tight arse with high expectations which doesn't get you very far in the commercial realm. I listen to a few designs at that time and the only one that really clicked with me was massively out of my price range - the Klein and Hummel O-500C at £10,000 a pair. After cursing myself for being poor, I got over that I went back to DIY.