What £20k system would you chose against this criteria?

Dominic Id choose horns because beauty is only skin deep.
then I would build my whole room and hifi system around these ugly horns.

In fact If I had a DB9 or expensive car, Im not sure what you have Id guess a Merc or TVR? I would be tempted to sell that get a Lada. With the money saved I would have someone design me some brilliant horns dedicated to my room. If you havent noticed DB9's and other flash cars attract women who are very expensive to run and that itself is a distraction to audio nirvana

This thread makes a nice change - keep it up

Andy
 
unclepuncle said:
You already seem to know quite clearly what your after in terms of sound and design, and judging from your, mainly negative, reposts to various suggestions, clearly already seem to have extensive personal experience of much of what is available. At the end of the day only you can decide, especially given the need for the cosmetic/fashion appeal of the speakers - it's your taste and nobody else is going to have the same set of values.

Perhaps the £20k woud be better spent on a penis extension:D - makes the willy waving much more impressive!!

PS. for the sake of the argument if it were my money I'd go for a nice simple single box disc spinner (Wadia or Esoteric), Perreaux amplification (not sure if there is a UK dealer though) and speakers to suit your tastes and that compliment your 'stunning' lounge;)
Click to expand...

Interesting that you think that nobody else likes speakers that sound and look great!!!!! Please read my posts more carefully, I never mentioned fashion, you did. I have had some recommendations that have clearly not met my brief so had to emphase my requirements. If I do not give specific feedback how can we have a meaningful conversation and reach a conclusion?

Yes I know what sound I am looking for I am in the music business - and sorry that you have not read and understood my posts - I have three days worth of experience in this price bracket. If I had the experience I would not need to post here would I? You may or may not have noticed but I do not just lurk here to get some company.

Am not sure how wanting good looking speakers is willy waving. Is everything in your life ugly but performs well and obviously cheap then? ;-)
 
Stereo Mic said:
I don't think I did Dominic.



If you want accuracy in a room your size, then I am afraid something larger than you seem to want is a must. You can have one or the other IME. You could get the Bang and Olufsen Beolab 5 and hook it up to a decent CD player. That would no doubt blend in.



I thought you had already seen the residuals of shiny fi? Sorry I misunderstood :)
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B&O - thought that you knew your stuff!

Some hifi holds its value better than others!

Why is it that often people cannot accept different points of view? What is wrong with wanting performance and good looks? Do you all have really ugly wives who are brainy and funny then because the looks do not matter, or are you all single because the girls do not want to live in house with speakers made of banana crates but sound great?
 
ADPully said:
Dominic Id choose horns because beauty is only skin deep.
then I would build my whole room and hifi system around these ugly horns.

In fact If I had a DB9 or expensive car, Im not sure what you have Id guess a Merc or TVR? I would be tempted to sell that get a Lada. With the money saved I would have someone design me some brilliant horns dedicated to my room. If you havent noticed DB9's and other flash cars attract women who are very expensive to run and that itself is a distraction to audio nirvana

This thread makes a nice change - keep it up

Andy
Click to expand...

TVR not my thing - but sounds like it would be for many on here! I look at ugly speakers almost everyday in various studios and do not want the same vista at home. Thanks for the Lada tip though - might just use the money to paid to have the electronics gold plated and encrusted with diamonds!
 
Dear Dominic

I think I noticed this in your first post as a dominator:


Quote:

What I want is a system that enables me to hear exactly the detail the mastering engineer heard when the piece was mastered. I know that this is impossible but it is what I am aiming at, if I can get 50% there then I will be happy. I do not want to hear the hifi system I want to hear the music. If listening live to a piano I want to hear it as though it was in the room and know which brand it was. If an electric guitar I should be able to tell a Tele from a Strat and whether it was a Boss CE-1 that was used or not. I have never heard a 'forward sounding' guitar or cymbal live but have done so many times on hifi - unacceptable. Detail means both the level of information recorded and that the detail is accurately produced.

This message has caused that many qualified bids flew onto your table, as in many opinions all the good bids which came to you maybe could do what you ask for, within the budget you stated. And you wanting only 50% of what the engineer hears, as you said ( not 100%), I think you could cut a zero off your budget.
But designs costs and leads to your budget being what you stated having everything looking *good* subjectively.

How much expensive design is contributing to what you are after? Frankly.

If you want to hear the >50% *music* yourself = the engineer there in the mixing studio = as you say must be 100%. You must be more open to different designs than those you point at if you want > than 50%.( Friendly meant.:))

I guess you know what you want (wished), even before you put the question there, but looked for a confirmation from fellowmen.

Now what if I said " I want a sound that's beyon what a studio mastering engineer can capture, namely being there together with the mucisians performing the music you refer to." And I had 200.000 quid for that.
What would be the difference in the response you got.
Hardly any :)


Gerner
 
dominicT said:
B&O - thought that you knew your stuff!
Click to expand...

That comment and your not knowing of the Anniversary ATC's suggests you might do well to research some of the ideas being put forward by others - they just might know something you don't.

FWIW, if you can find something that sounds half as good as my ugly speakers in a sleek domestic sexy carcas, I'll buy a pair. Remind me who married Dawn French all those years ago. Brains are forever, and IME have much better staying power - or " residuals" as you might prefer to put it.
 
not wishing to dampen the analogy but didn't lenny henry get caught with his pants down? do all those with ugly speakers sneak off for a quickie with a sleeker design in a midlands hotel room from time to time... well perhaps the analogy does work after all

Darren
 
Gerner said:
Dear Dominic

I think I noticed this in your first post as a dominator:


Quote:

What I want is a system that enables me to hear exactly the detail the mastering engineer heard when the piece was mastered. I know that this is impossible but it is what I am aiming at, if I can get 50% there then I will be happy. I do not want to hear the hifi system I want to hear the music. If listening live to a piano I want to hear it as though it was in the room and know which brand it was. If an electric guitar I should be able to tell a Tele from a Strat and whether it was a Boss CE-1 that was used or not. I have never heard a 'forward sounding' guitar or cymbal live but have done so many times on hifi - unacceptable. Detail means both the level of information recorded and that the detail is accurately produced.

This message has caused that many qualified bids flew onto your table, as in many opinions all the good bids which came to you maybe could do what you ask for, within the budget you stated. And you wanting only 50% of what the engineer hears, as you said ( not 100%), I think you could cut a zero off your budget.
But designs costs and leads to your budget being what you stated having everything looking *good* subjectively.

How much expensive design is contributing to what you are after? Frankly.

If you want to hear the >50% *music* yourself = the engineer there in the mixing studio = as you say must be 100%. You must be more open to different designs than those you point at if you want > than 50%.( Friendly meant.:))

I guess you know what you want (wished), even before you put the question there, but looked for a confirmation from fellowmen.

Now what if I said " I want a sound that's beyon what a studio mastering engineer can capture, namely being there together with the mucisians performing the music you refer to." And I had 200.000 quid for that.
What would be the difference in the response you got.
Hardly any :)


Gerner
Click to expand...

Interesting choice of words. The problem with forums or talking with people that you do not know is that they do not know each other and when seeking advice on any matter the person seeking the advice needs to be very clear about their needs. It is also clear to me that what I want is different to what many people on here want, so again I need to be specific. I have read a number of posts over the weekend and time and time again the same people recommend the same gear.

I know what a mastering engineer and mix engineer hears, this cannot be reproduced in the home via CD that is why I only asked for 50% of what the engineer hears. I really have no idea about the manufacturers such as Ayon, LSA etc but have heard of Wilson Benesch. I have listened to advice but have my criteria, so manufacturers with no represetnation in the UK, no matter how good, are off my list.

My initial game plan of a server based system last week to this thread requesting a CDP based system and increased budget (based on views expressed here and my weekend demos) proves that I am not doing what you suggest; I do not know what the amswer is but I do not want to be searching for the holy grail for a year like some on here are happy to do.

If you know of a system that can deliver 50% of what an engineer hears for £2000 then I will buy 100 of them and sell the other 99 for a huge profit. I think that am hearing 50% of what an engineer hears on systems costing £15k. I even made the point at SoM that on one system at £15k I could not hear any reverb on the vocal when there was reverb on the recording. Have you ever sat in a recording studio or mastering suite or maybe after all of these years I am going deaf!
 
Stereo Mic said:
That comment and your not knowing of the Anniversary ATC's suggests you might do well to research some of the ideas being put forward by others - they just might know something you don't.

FWIW, if you can find something that sounds half as good as my ugly speakers in a sleek domestic sexy carcas, I'll buy a pair. Remind me who married Dawn French all those years ago. Brains are forever, and IME have much better staying power - or " residuals" as you might prefer to put it.
Click to expand...

'Residuals' is a financial term and appropriate for describing the secondhand value of a capital item. If I buy new or secondhand I would prefer to lose less money than more money. I agree with the brains but what is really so wrong with having/wanting a wife or house that looks good?
 
dominicT said:
Interesting choice of words. The problem with forums or talking with people that you do not know is that they do not know each other and when seeking advice on any matter the person seeking the advice needs to be very clear about their needs. It is also clear to me that what I want is different to what many people on here want, so again I need to be specific. I have read a number of posts over the weekend and time and time again the same people recommend the same gear.

I know what a mastering engineer and mix engineer hears, this cannot be reproduced in the home via CD that is why I only asked for 50% of what the engineer hears. I really have no idea about the manufacturers such as Ayon, LSA etc but have heard of Wilson Benesch. I have listened to advice but have my criteria, so manufacturers with no represetnation in the UK, no matter how good, are off my list.

My initial game plan of a server based system last week to this thread requesting a CDP based system and increased budget (based on views expressed here and my weekend demos) proves that I am not doing what you suggest; I do not know what the amswer is but I do not want to be searching for the holy grail for a year like some on here are happy to do.

If you know of a system that can deliver 50% of what an engineer hears for £2000 then I will buy 100 of them and sell the other 99 for a huge profit. I think that am hearing 50% of what an engineer hears on systems costing £15k. I even made the point at SoM that on one system at £15k I could not hear any reverb on the vocal when there was reverb on the recording. Have you ever sat in a recording studio or mastering suite or maybe after all of these years I am going deaf!
Click to expand...

Dear Dominic

There's sense in your reply.

I have a feeling what you look for. I imagine. But only imagine.

Yeah.. my UK language is of no poetry. I'm not English.

But now you put it differently: If the buck you have provides % of whatever it's all about for you my friend. Then what about listening a bit to different systems and cut 10% of your budget just for that purpose.
I saw in this thread some bids of value.
Your may find very big surprices here for that travelling buck. I experienced that too. Believe me.

To find my 100% bid cost me 1% of how to come to there.

Now you point to a different subject.

FORUMS

I have a "head ache" that most posters hide behind nicknames. Who are you all you "#¤¤%%&//((). I'm sure many knows each other here.

But to you Dominic, I know only, and only, one who I know. And that person has a nick name too.

So in this respect it pure "blurred" who's clubbing with who.

I'm independant. A boy in the streets to most.

Gerner. :)
 
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussions however I feel that this 'experience' is not what I am looking for in my search. A good dealer is the way to go for me to find what I am looking for. Thanks again.
 
dominicT said:
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussions however I feel that this 'experience' is not what I am looking for in my search. A good dealer is the way to go for me to find what I am looking for. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Dear Dominic

You then addressed the wrong address...hehehe I think.
Have however a good journey among shawks in "dealer business". I know a few of them. Hilarious.....:)

Ciao
Gerner
 
The fact that you want your speakers to look fantastic is the main stumbling block here given your Mastering studio quality criteria, those guys tend to use kit that does its job well and form will tend to follow function. Also what's 'fantastic' anyway? to me it's Big Westies, Living voice horns, Kinoshitas-impossible to answer or even suggest for anyone else.
Why not use the pro models but soffit mount them behind screens -hidden away like?
 
definately cant help but feel something was up with that bel canto demo. I have heard them in three different systems... the ref 1000's are in a friends system as attached to a cyrus dacXP and monitor audio studio 20se, two components known for being possibly on the brighter side of neutral. And once again it was the ref1000's that cured the excess brightness by sounding rich warm and clean.

Ive yet to hear a bel canto ref1000 sound clean of harsh or forward at all... if it were, it would definately not work with focal beryllium based tweeters which would ruthlessly expose such brightness.

very odd indeed, i can only again say that i have found the BC's to sound utterly superb and appeal to the side of me that likes a slightly warm sound, while having one that is dynamic and as open as possible.
 
Since Linn have an Aston connection and they make nice stuff that is at least resellable, I would suggest: 1 pr Akurate 242 speakers, 1 pr mono Klimax Chakra, 1 Akurate DS or Slimdevices Transporter with Synology CS-407 NAS, 1 Velodyne DD-18. That might be inside your budget, I couldn't say accurately as I don't habitually add up what's in one or the other system. I wouldn't bother about resale value much either as it smacks of the tanks with 6 reverse gears approach.
 
cooky1257 said:
The fact that you want your speakers to look fantastic is the main stumbling block here given your Mastering studio quality criteria, those guys tend to use kit that does its job well and form will tend to follow function. Also what's 'fantastic' anyway? to me it's Big Westies, Living voice horns, Kinoshitas-impossible to answer or even suggest for anyone else.
Why not use the pro models but soffit mount them behind screens -hidden away like?
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Klein Hummel monitors I mentioned earlier in the thread, whilst being superb speakers, are just plain ugly. They're intended to be used main monitors in a studio so it sort of goes with the territory.

I think there is a point where you can forgive horrible looking speakers but I find they have to sound pretty good to get over the repulsion.

Nothing wrong with wanting a pretty cabinet so long as its beauty isn't an obstacle set in the path of engineering and sound. Of course you pay a shed load more for that higher aesthetic quality over the same speaker finished in truck bed liner. :D
 
ShinOBIWAN said:
Agreed. The Klein Hummel monitors I mentioned earlier in the thread, whilst being superb speakers, are just plain ugly. They're intended to be used main monitors in a studio so it sort of goes with the territory.

I think there is a point where you can forgive horrible looking speakers but I find they have to sound pretty good to get over the repulsion.

Nothing wrong with wanting a pretty cabinet so long as its beauty isn't an obstacle set in the path of engineering and sound. Of course you pay a shed load more for that higher aesthetic quality over the same speaker finished in truck bed liner. :D
Click to expand...

Hi Shin

I saw a guy once who spent 1.000 £ for a nice customized cab for a Fostex fullrange driver costing 50 £.
The cab looked good, but the sound......
That's a ratio of 20 between design and SQ!!!!
Upside down in this case.

Gerner :)
 
Gerner said:
Hi Shin

I saw a guy once who spent 1.000 £ for a nice customized cab for a Fostex fullrange driver costing 50 £.
The cab looked good, but the sound......
That's a ratio of 20 between design and SQ!!!!
Upside down in this case.

Gerner :)
Click to expand...

Well there's extremes of all cases. In that case one area was largely neglected for another. It is possible to strike a balance. Aesthetics isn't correlated to sound quality so if you want pretty or don't mind ugly looking speakers the two really have little to do with sound quality.

Build quality is another matter...
 

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