Why do you visit audio forums?

Do you visit in order to learn, pick up tips and improve understanding?

Do you enjoy posting and pushing your POV ?

Is the social side important to you and do you enjoy feeling part of a community?

Do you like a good row, either watching car crash style of actively participating?
Do you enjoy the threads that get heated and bad tempered?

Be honest!

What I'm getting at with these questions is examining the purpose of forums, particularly in todays changing market and with the established audio press shrinking by the day.

 

To learn what I can: to help where I can.

But at times the 'religious fervour' is amusing and at other times irritating.

 

I visit forum mostly to nag.

As you say the industry is changing, and I have been saying it for 5 years and at last some people are beginning to agree.

This was the first forum I joined about 5 years ago and Wigwam soon after and PFM soon after that. So I started posting about the way the industry needed to change and all the rip-offs and bullshits we had to put up with in the past, with a large percentage of them still with us. That is what started the rucks off that I was / am involved in, because the brainwashed sheep couldn't cope with it. So they formed packs and attacked and still do if allowed, though Rob has stopped a lot of it here.

I find it is a facet of human nature to blame the piano player rather than facing up to the tune, so I got booted from many forums at different times (this one for about 3 years until the management changed).

A big part of my argument I was voicing then was that the forums are an intrinsic part of this change as they will become the reason why (along with the likes of ebay) that retailers and magazines and reviewers are no longer necessary and are just hanging on to get the last bit of the slurp out of a sick and downsizing industry.

This change is obviously still in process and still the forums haven't realised what they are doing, they potentially will become the focal point of the industry if people who run them get the balance right. At the moment you just either get ego based nonsense run forums, or you get small minded individuals who don't see the potential, or you get the greedy looking for a way to create a new slurp. For me it is all about community as the industry goes back to its enthusiast roots.

Forums should not be afraid to stimulate commerce, it is how it is done that is important. For example it doesn't take much imagination to see that the second hand market is now and will become more so the biggest part of this industry. So why let ebay take all the money for this, forums could become full time for the owner and a means of his income with a little lateral thinking, without it becoming a slurp and without losing the community. Very important this because without community you don't have a forum in the first place!!

 

I come to fora to read about interesting hifi and maybe gain advice about choices and options for changes. I am also quite interested in the social aspect and have made a few friends though I will admit to not doing much this year. I will say that I am not really bothered about 'the state of the iindustry' and all that. I will buy my stuff on line, from the high street or second hand if it suits me. I don't habitually read the press although reviews do form part of my research either by forum members or archived press reviews.

I hate arguing and prefer to ignore topics which involve the usual polarising subjects and personalities.

 

I mostly come on here and other forums for something to look at whilst I'm listening to music at home.

Sometimes I feel like writing something. Sometimes I don't.


Sometimes a post will inspire me to investigate a component further. The entire system that I'm listening to now was completely unkown to me five years ago. I discovered every item via websites or hi-fi forums.


Forums are also a good way to meet other hi-fi enthusiasts and to listen to their kit. I think that bake-offs make for a good day out.


I enjoy reading a good row - but don't enjoy getting stuck in the middle of one.

I can't say that I feel part of a community. I feel like an outsider or someone on the fringe most of the time as my tastes in equipment seem to be rather different to the more WAF conscious norm.


There are certain people in hi-fi forum land whose opinions I respect and whose opinions I enjoy reading. 2 of them have already posted on this thread.


As for the hi-fi press. I enjoy reading Hi-fi World. Hi-fi News is OK. Hi-fi + is too pretentious for me. Hi-fi Choice I find boring. I can't quite get on with Stereophile. What Hi-Fi is a joke - their writers know nothing. My hi-fi magazine buying habits are the same as my hi-fi equipment and vinyl buying habits. Buy 2nd hand. Earlier this year I bought 150 magazines for £20 off a pfm member.


BTW my son's watching me writing this and we're now talking about the emoticons on the right hand side. He wants me to put a couple into this post. He likes this :saw: I like this one :gatling:

 

So you have a son with sadistic and homicidal tendencies and a daughter capable of eating speakers :yikes: your not plannig a bake-off are you, if so sorry I am busy

 

for all it's worth, why are we all on this forum i think not only we share different views on different subjects but also brings us together as a media of conversation of what we experiance in our journies through the hi-fi world and other subjects, it is also a relief to many people to be part of a comunity that make us glad to be here, regardless of bias arguments or disslike of caracters on the forum, it is for some "i think" a wonderfull thing to unwind and be part of...

 

In no particular order ;

Information on stuff that's not new so would otherwise be harder to find out.
Recommendations (then I make MY mind up).
Small ads.
A little fun. Moderation in all things, this shouldn't be deadly serious.

Pete

 

I used to enjoy reading forums for the opinions expressed but that is less so these days.
In fact I don't think that forums are in any way useful at helping folk choose equipment on a subjective level. Someone asks 'which cartridge should I buy' and you'll get ten contrary responses. That helps nobody, quite the reverse in fact.

For me the real value of forums is in the discussion around concepts and ideas, the industry, history, personalities etc. I also like the way we can share files and compare, though that is something very much in its infancy and I hope we see more of it.

I also agree with Richard that they can and should be a catalyst for the whole social and bake-off scene.

A little hot-headed posting can be fun at times, not that I'd ever do that myself.....

 

My reasons for visiting audio forums are first for a bit of fun and camaraderie with people who share similar interests (this the discussion that happens between audio), then to learn a bit about new music and audio in general, and very much last to pontificate.

In fact, I couldn't give a rat's arse about pontificating about audio. Why should anyone care what my consumer electronics preferences are?

Joe

 

I like forums to gain knowledge and meet like minded people.

I don't post on here much because my view on the hi fi world is dismissed on ZG.

 

I read hifi fora because it's rude to laugh at 'care in the community' types when you see then having breakdowns on the street. However it seems fair game on internet forums.

 

LOL

Yes I know what you mean - its why I post less often on other forums than used to be the case. Not so much because views are dismissed though, more a case of being out of kilter with the prevailing views.

I suppose its a bit like a Christian choosing to worship at the local Mosque

 

Rob,

I'm struggling to get a sense what zerogain is about. How would you describe it?

Joe

 

That in itself is a strength IMO.

I'd say it certainly sits more on the objective/scientific side than many others such as AOS, PFM, WW, Subjectivist. It is also free of any 'earth' bias, or perhaps baggage would be a better word than bias. Baggage shouldn't be taken as 'bad' in this context - indeed for many the opposite is true.

The way I see things, there is need of a forum that offers cold, hard, science based solutions to system problems.
So for example, when someone opines that their system is a tad bright, most forum answers will advise tinkering with the cables or supports in order to fine tune the system, or worse the exchanging of one flat amplifier for another.
Science demonstrates this to be ineffective, but you'll never read a suggestion to simply 'turn down the treble' or place a sheet of tissue paper in front of the tweeter dome.
Real solutions to a real problem but perhaps not the common view.

I can only speak personally and the example above indicates the direction I'm trying to push ZG. At the end of the day, the members decide so it is always very much 'push' and never dictate.

All of the online file comparisons, the cable testing, the measuring of TT feedback tests, the tube roll recording, the lossy file testing etc - all designed to take away the guesswork, supposition and bias and inject some objectivity.
The suggestion I made to you when you had no bass from your Tannoys on Naim - to insert some power resistors into the speaker lines - that's another example of what is sadly missing from today's forums.

Time will tell if there is sufficient interest for this approach.
One thing is for certain though. As I mentioned on PFM recently, this is very much seen as eliminating the mystique and feeling of belonging to a special club that dominates on forums today, and the audiophile industry more generally IMO.
As such we are never going to have 50+ active threads every day by doing something different. Think about it - when you arrive at a point where all competent amplifiers sounds very similar, cable differences are shown not to exist etc, you by definition cull much of the peripheral discussion.

Six months ago I said that if after 12 months we had 10 genuinely interesting and thought provoking threads running each day that would be success in my book.
Well things are a lot better than six month ago, albeit we get days with perhaps twelve active audio threads and others where it falls to one or two.

The above shouldn't read as a two fingered salute to those out on the far wing of subjectivism. It just means we've got a different slant here, and that statements that might perhaps pass as 'accepted' elsewhere will get challenged here.

No point having a dozen forums all doing the same thing.

 

Rob,

I'm all for science, rationality and logic to return to the hi-fi industry — there's way too much voodoo in my view — but where I probably depart from you is that if I don't like the way a component or system sounds there ain't a squiggle on an oscilloscope that's going to change that.

Maybe this means I prefer distortion to accuracy. That's possible, but I have a nice set of deadly accurate cans that I also really enjoy, so I don't buy into that. Better is better and worse is worse.

But if I have to choose between two imperfect systems or components, I'll take my preferred flavour of euphonic distortion over something that might be technically better but less fulfilling if the deficiency happens to be in an area that really bugs me or which humans as a rule find objectionable.

I know, a lot of rambling. But I think there ought to be some room here for subjectivism. In the end, the hobby is about enjoying music at home and if you're not enjoying your CDs, LPs or digital files, something is wrong.

Joe

 

Rob,

Your help was very much appreciated, even though the solution turned out to be inserting a Stingray into the line to get bass from the Tannoys.

Joe

 

I agree entirely.

I'm all for subjectivism when it comes to making a choice, we cannot really have it any other way. If that subjective choice is based on a liking for certain distortion - again that is fine and I would never argue that anyone is wrong for making such a choice.

Objectivity enters the scene in explaining the above, not by attempting to challenge it or prove your preference wrong.

If you prefer an amplifier with certain distortion characteristics, testing will simply highlight the distortion and help provide an explanation for what you are hearing.
Skip the above and you are left with guesswork - things like it sounds better because it uses special wire, or boutique caps, or 'simple' circuits etc.

When presented with a clear difference between two components, always look to the obvious for the initial explanation. You'll usually find the answer without too much difficulty. If not, yes then go on and explore the less plausible possibilities.
At the moment this rarely happens. Audiophiles will look to all sorts of unlikely explanations while actively dismissing the obvious causes of a difference.

Its a bit like me having two glasses of beer in front of me, one full and the other half full. I lift them and discover that one s heavier than the other. So do I -

A - assume this is because one contains more liquid

B - assume that one must be made from special glass

You get my drift....

True - the Stingray clearly brought more to the party. But the resistors, by reducing the electrical damping as a valve amp would, took you some way along the same road. To another person with different priorities/tastes those $1 resistors might have been the solution. They could have blown a few grant on a new amp, for that would be the default advice but isn't it nice for them to have a different option.

 

Rob,

Maybe we are on the same planet on this, but my deficient background in electronics, mechanical engineering, computery widgets and so on is what stands in the way of approaching the hobby more logically.

This doesn't mean I subscribe to the voodoo view, it's just that I often don't know what to do to fix a problem.

Joe

 

... so we need a forum to help do exactly that