Why do you visit audio forums?

I love the dichotomy of the 'new hi fi selling model' using forums and using the same to stop people buying product. Ace plan.
 
flatpopely said:
I love the dichotomy of the 'new hi fi selling model' using forums and using the same to stop people buying product. Ace plan.
Click to expand...
I am not a hi-fi selling model for anyone but myself. I just promote a direct to market approach as opposed to going through slurping retailers who double the price of your product. Just think how many more customers you would get at £625 instead of £1250 and you would make the same profit, you are just feeding the slurp, and in the process the customer is overcharged.

I am in a quite unique position, probably only Les is similar but larger. My customers become my friends because I don't have masses of them because I am a one man company, so if there is someone I wouldn't want as a friend then I don't want them as a customer. Anyway I don't like you but I wouldn't throw you out of my room, nor would I throw out Mescalino or Basil or others I have enjoyable barnies with, SQ is a special case he is just a nasty bit of work - full stop, and I am far from the only one who thinks so.
 
and more blind testing

Think it's VERY TELLING that it's usually the marketeers who bottom line are opposed to blind testing..:MILD:

This wouldn't be their realisation that they know full well what they're marketing won't stand the acid test, of course...;)

Get it in the home then and blind test it... lol
 
Nibbles said:
Think it's VERY TELLING that it's usually the marketeers who bottom line are opposed to blind testing..:MILD:

This wouldn't be their realisation that they know full well what they're marketing won't stand the acid test, of course...;)

Get it in the home then and blind test it... lol
Click to expand...
I have been doing the "acid tests" for over 30 years, you are a bit late into this argument, I now reject them for what they are, a delusional fantasy, *from experience*.
 
lindsayt said:
At the last big record player bake-off I went to I had 3 winners.

1 record player was the most detailed

Another had the best bass and the most dynamic bass and midrange

Another was the best value for money

I couldn't argue with anyone who picked any of my 3 winners. They were all good in their own way. Personal preference would be highly relevant. It would depend what compromises the owner was happiest with.
Click to expand...


This is no way to contemplate a purchase. In fact it's a recipe for failure.

I think what you are saying is that they were all fatally flawed, but you were simply picking the best possible from a poor bunch.

The sensible way to make a purchase is to set a standard and to draw up a specification for that standard.

With HiFi, imo, that is relatively easy to do, and can be achieved from a technical spec, or correct re-production of the original sound, or as a last resort, a correct re-production of a selected known recording.

In other words match the performance to the required specification.

To do anything else is not HiFi, but I suppose it might be 'Home Entertainment'.

To do it simply on preferences between a few items that are offered is a bit like choosing a new car by saying " can I have a red one please ", " I really like red ones, and so do all my friends on the red car forum. "

JC
 
sq225917 said:
Dave, there could be some mileage in considering the placement of power cables in a multiway strip the same way that you might look at the relative positions of components that return to ground in a circuit. Typically, though Richard may disagree with his vast experience, you would have the component that handles the smallest signal closest to point of lowest ground potential.

As an example there are audible benefits to connecting the ground legs of the signal decoupling cap in the naim 321 cards right back to the ground point at the far end of the power supply boards, rather than the ground plane on the 321 pcb. It's probably the single component that most effects the sound of this circuit and tying it to the very lowest point of ground potential pays dividends. The difference in noise on the ground plane at these two points is tiny, beyond the ability of my old scope to measure, but I've seen the scope shots for it and believe what they shows corresponds to what i hear.

So with that in mind, and thinking that some components sink more crap to ground than others, it might be worth trying to shuffle them in the strip based on the size of the signal they deal with. In reality it isn't the low signal that counts per-se, rather the fact that it is likely to be that it will follow that the difference between signal and ground potential is also smallest in the low signal components.

The idea is that the component closest to the wall socket has the cleanest path.

Now this might be an extrapolation too far in reality, i'm prepared to accept that entirely...
Click to expand...

Thanks Simon. At the moment it's in favor of wall outlet>CDS, preamp's HC, power amp, preamp's NAPSC at end of chain. vs trying all the combinations by ear. Not sure how I'd test for the difference between signal and ground potential without the skill and tools.

What amazes me is the difference in sound by fixing one wobbly speaker spike only out by a few mm, torquing the hell out of the outlet screws (lowering resistance?) and then changing order of the plugs. The differences aren't huge in sound quantity but quality. I've completely lost any trace of glare heard occasionally on peaks and with the upper mids of pianos (stuff I originally blamed on flutter echo and a "hard" sounding room.) As well, complex passages are easier to follow now with less sense of distortion on all recordings. No change in bass, treble or PR&T but I do hear less image wander and a more solid central image also. All in all, it sounds like I've bought new gear.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RobHolt said:
Telling someone what they should prefer is wrong.
Here i agree with Richard that some extreme objectivists get it wrong by insisting that speakers have to have a ruler flat response, or that they must use amps with <0.00005% thd.

People should use whatever they like if it pleases them.

I just want them to understand what is going on, and that is where objective testing is so valuable.
Click to expand...

Beautifully put, Rob.

Basically, buy what the hell you like, but at least let it be an informed choice. Music & hi-fi are two entirely different beasts.

Music works at a visceral level. The Job of the hi-fi is to render it as close to the composer/performers intentions.

Chris
 
Rob Holt said:
Telling someone what they should prefer is wrong.
Click to expand...


Taken literally, this statement is quite clearly a mistake.


Rob Holt said:
I just want them to understand what is going on, and that is where objective testing is so valuable.
Click to expand...


This statement is not a mistake, even though it appears to contradict the first one.



Referring to the thread topic, one of the reasons to participate in an audio forum is to help and inform other members who may be confused and ill-informed about HiFi reproduction.

High-Fidelity by definition means the ability to replay a sound recording with the greatest possible accuracy, so as to re-produce the sound of the original event.

This depends on taking the chosen recording as the yardstick.

The best way of evaluating any component in the re-play chain is by comparing the output to the input. Any changes made to the signal, with the exception of gain, represent a distortion of one sort or another.

The best way to do this is by objective scientific analysis under controlled conditions

Reactive and resistive components alter audio signals, but they will never improve the quality of the input signal. The best products degrade the input signal less than others.

In the audio replay chain, the errors and distortions from technically weak components is multiplicative more often than not. It is not appropriate to attempt to 'improve' the sound by using some distortions in an attempt to cover up others.

'Golden ears' and 'personal preferences' are particularly poor ways to achieve the objective since the senses are so easily fooled, particularly with visual input as an aid to sonic evaluation.

For example, - I think that believing that the order of the mains plugs in a multi way mains socket has any effect on the sound is a case in point. IMO it's utter rubbish. I do accept that some are sincere in their belief, but nevertheless they are deluded.

That is what is wrong with evaluation by 'preference'. Most ordinary people are simply in no position to make any sensible assessment, and this needs to be explained to them so that they may become better informed and less deluded.

JC.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jcbrum said:
That is what is wrong with evaluation by 'preference'. Most ordinary people are simply in no position to make any sensible assessment, and this needs to be explained to them so that they may become better informed and less deluded.

JC.
Click to expand...

So how would you go about explaining to someone who hates Marmite that their 'preference' is misguided?
 
I like Marmite Joe, but your question is not apposite. :)

It's like your 'someone' saying their HiFi is no good when playing Mozart but wonderful when playing Gershwin.

It's proper to express a preference for artistes or composers, but satisfactory replay equipment will re-produce either equally as well.

Regardless of their preference.

JC
 
Please inform me about this wonder system that will reproduce every musical work equally well (doing it equally badly will not cut it btw).

Everything from organ works to dance music to ambient noise to a capella vocal music to rock and full size orchestras and everything in between, all at sufficient volume levels and near-natural dynamics.
 
HiFi has no understanding of music. All it does is deal with electronic signals. Irrespective of whoever created them.

JC
 
Come on JC, just because you've never messed around with grounding arrangements in your amps or spent happy afternoons hunting down the last sq root of a fart to a nV in a phonostage shouldn't mean you don't believe in the 'order of plugs in a multiway strip' fairy... ;-)

The thing is it's such an 'almost' plausible explanation. It has just enough believability in it.

1. Has the foo-susceptible person heard of grounding- check.
2. Is he aware of how grounding paths can in some instances change the sound- check.
3. Can he measure them himself- no of course not- check.
4. Does the claim centre around tiny audible changes that only someone who believes they have magic golden ears can hear- check.

Bingo we have a winner. The truth is obvious, it makes no F-in difference to how your hifi sounds because every plug is at exactly the same ground potential.

But I did just like the idea of sending Dave off on a wild goose chase for a few hours, and you know what, he's probably found audio nirvana because he thought he was making a difference.

What's not to love, he get's to fulfil his lunatic tendencies and i get to bend his actions to my will, murrgh ha ha...
 
Chefren, ..... You obviously haven't heard a good system yet, ;) .... and yes, you are showing symptoms of audiophile delusion. :)

JC.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Back
Top