Effects of metal enclosures on circuits

[muz640]

I agree digital amps are a nonsense concept...
JC

Thats until you hear them in the right set up i suppose. Keeping everything digital until the speaker gives you a lot of flexibility, as you can make your own custom crossovers to match your speakers.
The TDA amps have their own unique sound, or lack of sound would be a better way to put it, thats why i asked if anyone had heard one.

 

[Pure Sound]

Wasn't there some problem about it giving off ozone as a by-product.

That has been the case with all of the plasma drivers I've encountered, most recently a Magnat prototype loaded by a horn.

Acapella seem to manage it though. I think the flame has to be kept very small which limits it to extreme hf really.

I look forward to hearing the new Lanche ones at some point. It seems to be a German obsession, the driver without moving parts.

 

[jcbrum]

...... Thats until you hear them in the right set up i suppose. Keeping everything digital until the speaker gives you a lot of flexibility, ...

I don't think you understand about 'digital' amps Muz. They aren't digital. It's just a market gimmick for amps which operate in class D biasing conditions. There's nothing digital about them.

No 'digits'

No binary code

No bits

No bytes

No digital transmission protocol

Digital Zilch

Just plain old analogue in class D operating conditions.

D is just the next letter in the alphabet after C

You know .... class A, class B, class C, ...... and then class D.

Class T is just another market gimmick as well. It's class D but from a manufacture who calls his amps, T amplifiers. Tri-Path started it I think.

JC

 

[Richard Dunn]

I don't think you understand about 'digital' amps Muz. They aren't digital. It's just a market gimmick for amps which operate in class D biasing conditions. There's nothing digital about them.

No 'digits'

No binary code

No bits

No bytes

No digital transmission protocol

Digital Zilch

Just plain old analogue in class D operating conditions.

D is just the next letter in the alphabet after C

You know .... class A, class B, class C, ...... and then class D.

Class T is just another market gimmick as well. It's class D but from a manufacture who calls his amps, T amplifiers. Tri-Path started it I think.

JC

Not often I agree with you, but spot on!

 

[muz640]

I know the alphabet thanks! and i know what class D means, i have class G amps!

What im asking is has any heard any of these amps before making assumptions that they are "nonsense concepts" obviously the answer is no.

 

[Richard Dunn]

I know the alphabet thanks! and i know what class D means, i have class G amps!

What im asking is has any heard any of these amps before making assumptions that they are "nonsense concepts" obviously the answer is no.

I think the point that is being made to you is there is no such thing as a digital amplifier. You can have a digital signal processing and control stage, you can call it pre-amp if you want, but you have to convert back to analogue before you can put a circuit in called a power amp to provide the voltage and the current that the the speaker needs in order to work.

 

[muz640]

I think the point that is being made to you is there is no such thing as a digital amplifier. You can have a digital signal processing and control stage, you can call it pre-amp if you want, but you have to convert back to analogue before you can put a circuit in called a power amp to provide the voltage and the current that the the speaker needs in order to work.

Hi Richard, yes i understand that thank you... all is im asking is has anyone heard this type of amp before making a judgement if it sounds any good or not, that was all.

 

[Richard Dunn]

Hi Richard, yes i understand that thank you... all is im asking is has anyone heard this type of amp before making a judgement on if it sounds any good or not, that was all.

Do you mean type of amp or make of amp?

If you mean type then it is all a load of marketing bollocks, once you get past type D then really the rest of them are just variations and given a letter for marketing purposes. All a class G is is a combination between a class AB and a class D. It is a class AB amp that uses multiple rails instead of just a + and - pair and uses a switching D type circuit to switch between them. I see absolutely no sonic advantage. The *only* advantage is it makes for more efficient use of electricity than an AB and therefore doesn't need to dissipate as much heat so you save on heatsink, so usefull for high powered PA amps. It is more complex than a simple AB, so more gets in the way of the signal path, so no I don't like it.

If you mean a specific make of amp that for bullshit marketing reasons calls itself class G or a Digital amp, then no I haven't.

 

[muz640]

Do you mean type of amp or make of amp?

Both, or any class D amp! Ive heard a few different makes and they have some interesting qualities, I just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the SQ before dismissing them as nonsense.

If you mean a specific make of amp that for bullshit marketing reasons calls itself class G or a Digital amp, then no I haven't.

thanks that's all i wanted to know.

 

[Richard Dunn]

You should have a listen to a Lyngdorf TDA amp if you can Richard, not perfect, but an interesting idea if your using a digital source (which i know your not dead keen on )

http://www.lyngdorf.com/content/view/14/33/
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I read the first paragraph and refuse to read any more because it is complete bullshit - I ask you !

"The TDAI 2200 true digital integrated amplifier is the most versatile amplifier in our range and in the world. The standard version of the compact 2 x 200W digital control centre can be expanded with analog input module and the outstanding RoomPerfect room correction system."

What the FFF is a 200watt digital control centre?

 

[Richard Dunn]

Both, or any class D amp! Ive heard a few different makes and they have some interesting qualities, I just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the SQ before dismissing them as nonsense.



thanks that's all i wanted to know.

Actually I tell a lie, yes I have heard one. I had forgotten, but it was pretty heavily pissed on by a 300b valve amp driving a pair Impulse horns at Mr Sukebe's bake-off. I think it was one of these things you are refering to.

But there again the nva amp sounded pretty dire driving them as well, but I have lots of excuses but I wont make them.

 

[sq225917]

Well the lyngdorf could more accurately described as a digital pre-amp+ DAC + switching power amp in one box with room correction performed in the digital domain, so it does come closer than almost anything else this side of the Goldmund Telos/Domus kit which is digital right for just that little bit further towards the output devices.

heard it, wasn't impressed by how natural it sounded. But i have heavily biased against switching amps, and SMPS supplied gear.

 

[muz640]

Actually I tell a lie, yes I have heard one. I had forgotten, but it was pretty heavily pissed on by a 300b valve amp driving a pair Impulse horns at Mr Sukebe's bake-off. I think it was one of these things you are refering to.

But there again the nva amp sounded pretty dire driving them as well, but I have lots of excuses but I wont make them.

Yes i can understand where your coming from having heard a pair of 25 year old Albarry Monoblocks best some modified class ('T') monoblocks at a speaker demo.
Im just not keen on people dismissing stuff as "nonsense" (not that it was you mind) without having any experience of the type of amplifiers in question.

 

[jcbrum]

I have heard them. The ones I heard were in 'active' speakers, and in subs, and in physically small amplifiers in plastic (perhaps acrylic) cases with unusual shapes.

Generally they aren't as powerful as the specs would suggest, with relatively high levels of distortion.

They seem to me to be more suited generally to RF amplification than AF.

JC

 

[Richard Dunn]

Yes i can understand where your coming from having heard a pair of 25 year old Albarry Monoblocks best some modified class ('T') monoblocks at a speaker demo.
Im just not keen on people dismissing stuff as "nonsense" (not that it was you mind) without having any experience of the type of amplifiers in question.

Ah well, no surprise then, especially when you consider that the Albarry (Albert and Barry) were one of the best power amp makes seen off by the Linn / Naim dealer domination of the late 80' early 90's - seriously good power amps but fairly duff pre-amp, though they sing with a passive

EDIT - and they used clear red tinted acylic front panels.

 

[jcbrum]

p.s. the nonsense is to call them 'digital amplifiers'

 

[muz640]

I have heard them. The ones I heard were in 'active' speakers, and in subs, and in physically small amplifiers in plastic (perhaps acrylic) cases with unusual shapes.

Generally they aren't as powerful as the specs would suggest, with relatively high levels of distortion.

They seem to me to be more suited generally to RF amplification than AF.

JC

This isnt very specific

Im taking about the more established amp makers like Lyngdorf/Tact etc....

 

[RobHolt]

Actually I tell a lie, yes I have heard one. I had forgotten, but it was pretty heavily pissed on by a 300b valve amp driving a pair Impulse horns at Mr Sukebe's bake-off. I think it was one of these things you are refering to.

But there again the nva amp sounded pretty dire driving them as well, but I have lots of excuses but I wont make them.

I that was a Bel Canto amp.

 

[jcbrum]

.... I know what class D means ....

I don't think you did ....

....otherwise you wouldn't have made this statement in post No 101 ......

.. Keeping everything digital until the speaker gives you a lot .....

Let's get this clear, digital amps don't exist .... they're a marketing invention.

Loudspeaker drive units have to be driven by analogue amplifiers, otherwise they don't work.

Class D amps - all of them, - imo, have the disadvantages and characteristics that I have mentioned, based on my experience.

JC

 

[muz640]

Why dont you quote the full thing in context, not bits of it to make your own meanings...

Thats until you hear them in the right set up i suppose. Keeping everything digital until the speaker gives you a lot of flexibility, as you can make your own custom crossovers to match your speakers.
The TDA amps have their own unique sound, or lack of sound would be a better way to put it, thats why i asked if anyone had heard one.

From Tact...

Having said all of this it is worth pointing out, that the Tact's True Digital Amplifiers are not amplifiers at all. They are D/A converters that just happen to put out enough current and voltage to drive speakers directly, without the need of any amplification. This way it will perform the functions of: D/A converter, Preamplifier and Power Amplifier, without having any analog circuitry after D/A conversion other than one coil and one capacitor performing a 60 kHz, 2nd order low-pass filter.

Essentially, the hundreds of active and passive components usually required for amplification are gone!

and if you dont like it send an email to them, and tell them they are wrong, ok?

I don't think you did ....


Class D amps - all of them, - imo, have the disadvantages and characteristics that I have mentioned, based on my experience.

JC

But what is your experience exactly?

" Originally Posted by jcbrum

I have heard them. The ones I heard were in 'active' speakers, and in subs, and in physically small amplifiers in plastic (perhaps acrylic) cases with unusual shapes.

Generally they aren't as powerful as the specs would suggest, with relatively high levels of distortion.

They seem to me to be more suited generally to RF amplification than AF.

JC"

You seem rather vague, as per usual!