How about suggesting that it might be reasonable for Saudi women to be allowed to drive?
In an enclave.
I'm not sure that's a good reason for praising tyranny...
Paul
Identity cards....
- Thread starter julian2002
- Start date
Paul
and how many of the people you socialised with were saudi and publicly expressed views contrary to the state / religious line?
julian2002
Muper Soderator
rob,
A person can now be tracked and logged so many ways it's not even funny. there's cctv with various facial and posture recognition technology, credit / debit card use tracking, mobile phones (which if you are really paranoid would be able to 'see and hear' most things you do) add in isp's recording what you do in the net and the new digital speed cameras logging your number plate to see where you are in your car and privbacy is absolutely meaningless in todays society. of course there are laws and processes in place to 'watch the watchmen' but as we have seen in the past these can be ignored by the unscroupulous.
as i said before i'm more concerned about the government going on an efficiency drive and putting my entire history on the thing for anyone with the right software to be able to read. i can see medical, criminal, credit and other histories being stored in this way for 'efficiencies' sake.
at present there is little or no connection between these databases however with them all on one chip it would take a lot less effort for the authorities to gain access to them THAT is my fear. admittedly not one that is looming but i can see something like it on the horizon.
i have no objection to a 'dumb' id card as it's little different from a driving license or passport (both of which i have) however as i say a 'smart' one is another matter.
cheers
julian.
A person can now be tracked and logged so many ways it's not even funny. there's cctv with various facial and posture recognition technology, credit / debit card use tracking, mobile phones (which if you are really paranoid would be able to 'see and hear' most things you do) add in isp's recording what you do in the net and the new digital speed cameras logging your number plate to see where you are in your car and privbacy is absolutely meaningless in todays society. of course there are laws and processes in place to 'watch the watchmen' but as we have seen in the past these can be ignored by the unscroupulous.
as i said before i'm more concerned about the government going on an efficiency drive and putting my entire history on the thing for anyone with the right software to be able to read. i can see medical, criminal, credit and other histories being stored in this way for 'efficiencies' sake.
at present there is little or no connection between these databases however with them all on one chip it would take a lot less effort for the authorities to gain access to them THAT is my fear. admittedly not one that is looming but i can see something like it on the horizon.
i have no objection to a 'dumb' id card as it's little different from a driving license or passport (both of which i have) however as i say a 'smart' one is another matter.
cheers
julian.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
This thread has more than doubled since I last read it this morning so I haven't had time to read it all. To the people asking me how it will help prevent crime the answer to this is easy. On example would be providng your ID card when you buy stuff with a credit card as automatic proof of who you are. This makes stolen credit cards much harder to use.
It would also make it easier for the police to be able to locate known crinimals saving a lot of police time.
I understand people want their privacy respected but I am sure this scheme will operate within the law and its not exactly going to have loads of IDs to databases such as the NHS, Police etc. It won't be case that you go to the interview and they say "we don't want you because you had such an operation and you may die on us"
It would also make it easier for the police to be able to locate known crinimals saving a lot of police time.
I understand people want their privacy respected but I am sure this scheme will operate within the law and its not exactly going to have loads of IDs to databases such as the NHS, Police etc. It won't be case that you go to the interview and they say "we don't want you because you had such an operation and you may die on us"
nsherin
In stereo nirvana...
julian2002 said:
Agree with you there, Julian. When I lived in Hong Kong, they had ID cards out there. No problems with it just being a plain ID card, but the concern is what else they store on it. I also object shelling out £80 for something that is compulsory!
julian2002
Muper Soderator
at,
i must say that you are diplaying an amazing amount of trust in a govornment who have done some pretty low things. As i say a 'dumb' card would have no problems from me however if it comes with a 'chip' then i'd start to worry - i suspect it will given that it costs 80 quid.
i really hope that my cynicsm is misplaced but somehow, being the pessimist i am, i doubt it.
cheers
julian
i must say that you are diplaying an amazing amount of trust in a govornment who have done some pretty low things. As i say a 'dumb' card would have no problems from me however if it comes with a 'chip' then i'd start to worry - i suspect it will given that it costs 80 quid.
i really hope that my cynicsm is misplaced but somehow, being the pessimist i am, i doubt it.
cheers
julian
michaelab
desafinado
AT - exactly how do you think it would do that?
Michael.
SCIDB
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michaelab said:
Not at all. As Paul has mentioned they should only be stopped you if they have good reason to. I have been stopped many times over the years and very few times have I had to show any ID. If fact only twice have I had a producer. I have been stopped for some bloody trival reasons.
michaelab said:
A lot of people use to keep their documents in the car as they are usually too baulky to carry round with you. There is always a good chance that they will get nicked (along with the car.) This is a main reason you leave them at home. Having a license on your person is no guarantee of not getting a "producer". I had my license on me when I got a "producer".
michaelab said:
One thing is that alot of people still have old style licenses which have no photos on. You don't have to change to a new licence. Newer drivers will have this license with photo details on it. My license is 21 years old and still clean. I have had no need to send it anywhere or to change it.
SCIDB
It adds nothing, where are you going to keep your ID card? Separate from your credit cards? 'Chip and PIN' makes misuse of a credit card much harder because you carry your PIN in your head.
When you're stopped by the police in a car they check the registration number, that gives them an address, does it match the address you give them? Why not? A simple process that cannot be replaced by an ID card. ID cards just lead to a reduction in human intelligence.
Entertaining story today about Algerian fraudsters opening bank accounts using stolen or faked French and Italian ID cards. Cracked by an attentive shop manager.
Paul
amazingtrade said:
Yeah, They could all have a locater chip planted deep within their brains and linked to the internet somehow, so the cops would always know where they where. Perhaps even giving them small electric shocks that induced splitting headaches if they had bad thoughts...
michaelab
desafinado
Sure, the police should only stop you if they have good reason (and despite what many police think, being black and driving a flash car is not a good reason ). If you have committed an offence (eg speeding) and they are going to give you a ticket then you will need some kind of ID if they're going to issue you a producer. If you have got your driving license, insurance documents and MOT certificate (if applicable) with you at the time then there's no reason for them to issue a producer.
When photo ID licenses first came out in the UK I got one as soon as it was possible. Unfortunately they couldn't even get the photo licenses right since you still have to carry that stupid A4 sheet of paper for writing in endorsements around with you for it to be valid. I rent cars frequently in the UK and the number of people I've seen "going postal" because the rent-a-car agent has just told them they can't pick up the car because they don't have that A4 sheet with them just isn't funny. Most people have probably binned it. I mean WTF is the point of a nice little credit card sized license that fits nicely into your wallet if you still have to carry that archaic old document around to make it valid? :inferno:
If you have to change your license for any reason (moving house, removing endorsements) you can now only get a photo one.
Michael.
). If you have committed an offence (eg speeding) and they are going to give you a ticket then you will need some kind of ID if they're going to issue you a producer. If you have got your driving license, insurance documents and MOT certificate (if applicable) with you at the time then there's no reason for them to issue a producer.When photo ID licenses first came out in the UK I got one as soon as it was possible. Unfortunately they couldn't even get the photo licenses right since you still have to carry that stupid A4 sheet of paper for writing in endorsements around with you for it to be valid. I rent cars frequently in the UK and the number of people I've seen "going postal" because the rent-a-car agent has just told them they can't pick up the car because they don't have that A4 sheet with them just isn't funny. Most people have probably binned it. I mean WTF is the point of a nice little credit card sized license that fits nicely into your wallet if you still have to carry that archaic old document around to make it valid? :inferno:
If you have to change your license for any reason (moving house, removing endorsements) you can now only get a photo one.
Michael.
michaelab
desafinado
If only that were so, see my previous post. Many foreign car rental places however are not aware of this archaic British A4 "addendum" (it's now green and pink...and grubby) to the driving license so just the credit card bit will suffice.Sgt Rock said:BTW I think they are a good idea and also credit card sized driving licenses, the yanks laugh when you produce a grubby green piece of paper when trying to rent a car
Michael.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
michaelab said:
Well if it did have some kind of semiconductor built into it I assume every time you have to show you're ID card for example opening a bank account the card would be swiped at that would be logged on a central database. Also this system could be used to help prevent card theft and cloning.
This is asuming that these cards will be smart and dumb like driving licences.
SCIDB
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Sgt Rock said:Dean, You've not moved in 21 years
BTW I think they are a good idea and also credit card sized driving licenses, the yanks laugh when you produce a grubby green piece of paper when trying to rent a car
Hi Andy,
Not true. I have moved within 21 years.
I have had sent my licence back to get it's address changed. But I still have an old style one.SCIDB
michaelab
desafinado
Dean - I'm pretty sure that if you were to move now you'd have no choice but to upgrade to a photo license.
Michael.
Michael.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
michaelab said:Sure, the police should only stop you if they have good reason (and despite what many police think, being black and driving a flash car is not a good reason
When photo ID licenses first came out in the UK I got one as soon as it was possible. Unfortunately they couldn't even get the photo licenses right since you still have to carry that stupid A4 sheet of paper for writing in endorsements around with you for it to be valid. I rent cars frequently in the UK and the number of people I've seen "going postal" because the rent-a-car agent has just told them they can't pick up the car because they don't have that A4 sheet with them just isn't funny. Most people have probably binned it. I mean WTF is the point of a nice little credit card sized license that fits nicely into your wallet if you still have to carry that archaic old document around to make it valid? :inferno:
If you have to change your license for any reason (moving house, removing endorsements) you can now only get a photo one.
Michael.
Yep the joke is you need the photo ID card now as well. When was having driving lessons I only had to take the photo ID with me as that was enough, I would only need the A4 paper if the police stopped us and I had to reproduce my documents.
It is now law that all new licences issued have to have the photo ID with them. It does seem daft you need the other bit of paper too. You think by now you would have smart photo ID licences that have all that data contained in a chip rather than having to have a seperate piece of paper.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
Sgt Rock said:Dean, You've not moved in 21 years
BTW I think they are a good idea and also credit card sized driving licenses, the yanks laugh when you produce a grubby green piece of paper when trying to rent a car
I've not moved for 22 years, my mum and dads not moved for 24 years and my grandparents have not moved for 44 years. Sorry off topic.
My dad only has a paper based licence as well.
Alas not true. It would actually be yet another way to beat up on the little guy, to make the law abiding citizens lives increasing hassled. One of the main things they are peddling it as a 'cure' for is prevention of terrorism. This just isnt true. A suicide bomber can find any number of ways into this country and wouldnt be bothered about getting out or being here long enough to be 'detected'. All this would do is cost a lot of money and make yours and my life worse. A dumb card - fine. A 'smart' card. No way. As it is i have plans to leave this country as i barely recognise it as the place i grew up in (and im not even 30) - this would pretty much force me to leave. Anyone who uses the argument that if you are a law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about, clearly doesnt truly understand the nature of what this really means.
Oops, sorry came across a bit heavy here! Guess its a pet hate of mine.
