scalford hall hifi show 2011

[RobHolt]

Going forward, perhaps next year but certainly 2012 it should be possible for forums to combine and organise something of reasonable size.

This could be organised in many ways, including enthusiasts only paying a fee to attend and exhibit, or a mix of enthusiasts and smaller trade + perhaps magazines. The latter option is less pure but sometimes you have to do a deal with the devil in order to achive some good.

 

[Richard Dunn]

Going forward, perhaps next year but certainly 2012 it should be possible for forums to combine and organise something of reasonable size.

This could be organised in many ways, including enthusiasts only paying a fee to attend and exhibit, or a mix of enthusiasts and smaller trade + perhaps magazines. The latter option is less pure but sometimes you have to do a deal with the devil in order to achive some good.

Well as I keep saying the proof of the pudding is in the eating. For the London Bake-Off show the venue is costing £1000 for the day, so at £10 each it requires 100 attendees to break even, if we get less I will set the loss against tax as sponsorship, if it makes money that money will go into a pot for the next one or for Scalford, or others. Hopefully by doing this we can build up a fund to get these organised in many localised areas. This has been my idea for a very long time as part of the "new industry" that will emerge from the rip-off ashes of the old one.

The only contribution from the trade should be help in organising and help with sponsorship. You don't invite traders to your home bake-off (look at the mistake I made) so don't let them take over the shows. The trade can attend the shows and even bring product, but it is up to the room bosses if it goes on and no marketing bullshit will be allowed.

 

[YNMOAN]

This could be organised in many ways, including enthusiasts only paying a fee to attend and exhibit, or a mix of enthusiasts and smaller trade + perhaps magazines. The latter option is less pure but sometimes you have to do a deal with the devil in order to achive some good.

To be honest, I think you would struggle to get enthusiasts to pay to exhibit. As regards 'smaller trade' - who would decide what constituted 'smaller'?

(oh look - 400 posts)

 

[dudywoxer]

from my own point of view I would pay to attend, but would not pay to exhibit, at least not above the entrance fee. I also have to say that if the amount of bickering that the 'trade' has chucked into the equation so far is a symbol of what their involvement may bring, I would rather the show just died.

 

[Richard Dunn]

from my own point of view I would pay to attend, but would not pay to exhibit, at least not above the entrance fee. I also have to say that if the amount of bickering that the 'trade' has chucked into the equation so far is a symbol of what their involvement may bring, I would rather the show just died.

So are you saying I was wrong to make public non private information given to me by Chester Group everything from that point on from the *other* traders here and BTW from the normal members at WW in the closed thread has been people either calling me a liar or dissing my motives.

 

[sq225917]

I think you need to check your facts, the first mention of the concept goes back to a post I made on Wigwam about 4 years ago, in my short stay there, and subsequently I have talked about the concept on PF and AoS and of course Subjectivist. Chester Group saw the discussion, saw a possibility, and then approached the major forums by email about organising a forum show and only Wigwam got back to them about it.

I'm sure the 'concept' goes back even further than that Richard, you didn't invent the wheel, after all people were having bakeoffs before you were born.

I don't know the inner workings of what went on behind the scenes with email, only how things were presented on the Wam, so you may well be correct with regard to Chester groups instigation of the event, apologies if I was incorrect.

 

[dudywoxer]

So are you saying I was wrong to make public non private information given to me by Chester Group everything from that point on from the *other* traders here and BTW from the normal members at WW in the closed thread has been people either calling me a liar or dissing my motives.

I'm not saying you where wrong to make it public, what I am saying is that the back biting and hissy fits that seem to follow are pointless. I don't know, or care, what, if any, your motives , or any one else's are. I just feel that it illustrates why the enthusiasts show does not need trade input. If the lack of trade input means that the show dies then it does not deserve to continue as an enthusiasts show.
By trade I don't mean guys selling vinyl and CD's. A trade stall of that nature is a good thing for the show, and the visitors. What it does not need, and should not have is either overt or covert representation of manufactures. The show attitude and ethos could be spoiled by people borrowing kit to put into their system for the day on a much wider level than has so far been the case.
I suppose a case could be made for letting the second hand guys have a 'shop' at the show, but in that case it should be made OK for the forum members to arrange their own sales room for surplus kit, and that could cause a number of problems as well.
If the forum members, and others want to visit the show, then it needs to be decided if it is going to happen. If so, who is going to give up the time to negotiate with the hotel, organise the rooms etc. A time consuming exercise I would imagine. Having negotiated with the hotel, with a time limited option to confirm and pay, then the show is publisised, with a time limit to book and pay for your ticket. If by that date enough income has not been generated to pay the hotel, then the show does not happen, and any received payments are returned.

 

[YNMOAN]

I think that is fair comment.

However, you may not be aware how much equipment was loaned into systems last year - certainly I know of quite a few (at least two manufacturers too). However, in all these cases you had to know the people involved to realise the situation - it was all very low key.

 

[Richard Dunn]

I'm not saying you where wrong to make it public, what I am saying is that the back biting and hissy fits that seem to follow are pointless. I don't know, or care, what, if any, your motives , or any one else's are. I just feel that it illustrates why the enthusiasts show does not need trade input. If the lack of trade input means that the show dies then it does not deserve to continue as an enthusiasts show.
By trade I don't mean guys selling vinyl and CD's. A trade stall of that nature is a good thing for the show, and the visitors. What it does not need, and should not have is either overt or covert representation of manufactures. The show attitude and ethos could be spoiled by people borrowing kit to put into their system for the day on a much wider level than has so far been the case.
I suppose a case could be made for letting the second hand guys have a 'shop' at the show, but in that case it should be made OK for the forum members to arrange their own sales room for surplus kit, and that could cause a number of problems as well.
If the forum members, and others want to visit the show, then it needs to be decided if it is going to happen. If so, who is going to give up the time to negotiate with the hotel, organise the rooms etc. A time consuming exercise I would imagine. Having negotiated with the hotel, with a time limited option to confirm and pay, then the show is publisised, with a time limit to book and pay for your ticket. If by that date enough income has not been generated to pay the hotel, then the show does not happen, and any received payments are returned.

Wont work that way, pre-sales are useles unless you are geared up for it with a website, credit cards etc.

There is no work involved of any consequence, I am doing one so I know. I have visited two hotels and the second one, a bloody good 4 star plus was perfect, I negotiated a price (got a good discount 'cos its a Sunday). I gave them my credit card number and that is it booked. When we get nearer I will speak to them again to provide tea and coffee services in our meeting area that the rooms surround, and the bar is about 50ft away in the main lobby. I will stand at the one entrance to the show all day in turns with my wife taking your tenners, at the end of the day I go to reception and check out and use the cash - simples!

The same could be done at Scalford no problem it just needs someone to have the bottle to do it.

 

[dudywoxer]

I think that is fair comment.

However, you may not be aware how much equipment was loaned into systems last year - certainly I know of quite a few (at least two manufacturers too). However, in all these cases you had to know the people involved to realise the situation - it was all very low key.

I certainly don't know all that was lent, but there was certainly some kit at both shows that did not belong in the rooms system this year, and last. Its a shame that people feel the need to do it. May be I should ring Rega and ask if they would let me have a Isis and Osiris on loan for a week or 50, or maybe Acuphase would like a stronger representation at the show.

 

[dudywoxer]

Wont work that way, pre-sales are useles unless you are geared up for it with a website, credit cards etc.

There is no work involved of any consequence, I am doing one so I know. I have visited two hotels and the second one, a bloody good 4 star plus was perfect, I negotiated a price (got a good discount 'cos its a Sunday). I gave them my credit card number and that is it booked. When we get nearer I will speak to them again to provide tea and coffee services in our meeting area that the rooms surround, and the bar is about 50ft away in the main lobby. I will stand at the one entrance to the show all day in turns with my wife taking your tenners, at the end of the day I go to reception and check out and use the cash - simples!

The same could be done at Scalford no problem it just needs someone to have the bottle to do it.

I may have the bottle (but not the credit card limit) to do something that needed 5 or 6 rooms, but not a full hotel for a weekend. If people are so keen on this type of show then they will spring their tenners or whatever up front, and it does not cost that much to open a current account at a bank. Plenty of people advance pay for concerts and sporting events, why is this any different? If the support is not there to finance it, then to my mind neither is the interest.

 

[Richard Dunn]

I'm sure the 'concept' goes back even further than that Richard, you didn't invent the wheel, after all people were having bakeoffs before you were born.

I don't know the inner workings of what went on behind the scenes with email, only how things were presented on the Wam, so you may well be correct with regard to Chester groups instigation of the event, apologies if I was incorrect.

You may be right but I have never seen mention of show bake-offs, and everyone seemed surpised at WW for me to suggest it (amoungst other things I thought would work in the new industry) and I got dissed like mad, and yet four years later it is being thought of as their invention. Some people at WW are even saying I am copying *their* concept and say they will boycott the London Show because of that cut off your nose to spite your face comes to mind.

Tony at PF got the original email from Chester Group according to him, but he wants no part of shows being officially endorsed or sponsored by PF, as I had an email conversation about it with him. Though is happy for a thread about them which he stickys.

 

[unclepuncle]

What,
Richard involved in an acrimonious dispute on a hi fi forum? Surely not.......

Chris

Richards just bummed because his was the worst sounding room at last years show and it was highlighted as such by pretty much everyone at the Wam.

As an attendee last year and a prospective exhibitor this year, if the show is resurrected I would make it a clear stipulation of my involvment that if Richard Dunn is involved in any way shape or fom, or is even allowed to attend then I would not go near the place.

 

[TonyL]

Tony at PF got the original email from Chester Group according to him, but he wants no part of shows being officially endorsed or sponsored by PF, as I had an email conversation about it with him. Though is happy for a thread about them which he stickys.

True. I was contacted early on and declined the offer to involve pfm. I did so initially as CG insisted on imposing a gagging clause where anything negative about them would be removed should it appear on my site. I just don't work like that and never have done, nor did I want some middle-man standing with their hand out at the door profiting from a site that's taken getting on for a decade to build up. I run / ran the stickied thread out of friendship for WigWam and as a service to pfm members, nothing more. I was very pleased that the event turned out to be a success and I hope WigWam find a way to continue.

Now CG are out of the picture I still don't intend to get involved personally or professionally - I've zero interest in 'exhibiting' my kit or selling vinyl at such an event, it's just not my thing, and I've never needed to advertise, publicise or promote pfm in any way at all, so these events don't appeal considering the effort, risk, cost and time involved. I am certainly happy to run threads promoting and providing feedback for any future events organised by others - I wish them well. I may even attend one as a punter at some point!

Tony.

 

[Richard Dunn]

I may have the bottle (but not the credit card limit) to do something that needed 5 or 6 rooms, but not a full hotel for a weekend. If people are so keen on this type of show then they will spring their tenners or whatever up front, and it does not cost that much to open a current account at a bank. Plenty of people advance pay for concerts and sporting events, why is this any different? If the support is not there to finance it, then to my mind neither is the interest.

Those 6 rooms are conference rooms and large (but not high thank goodness) and would cost similar to hiring 20 or more bedroomd. They are well isolated from each other and are perfectly suited to a themed Bake-Off each room with its own speciality. Large foyee area for chat and drinks as the rooms are in a ground floor wing with the rooms surrounding the foyee. The wing is seperated from the main hotel so we wont interfere with them and visa versa, it seems to me the perfect venue. If anyone on t'committee or others thinking of getting involved I can take you to look over the facilities.

 

[nando]

i still think that hi-fi exbitions have long lost the flabour of enthusiasm that it was a pleasure to venture to, for the last decade or so the most visited place,"longest" is the local bar, conersations on different subjects and review the 5 stars on the local brews,
nando.

 

[Richard Dunn]

i still think that hi-fi exbitions have long lost the flabour of enthusiasm that it was a pleasure to venture to, for the last decade or so the most visited place,"longest" is the local bar, conersations on different subjects and review the 5 stars on the local brews,
nando.

They are trade shows and people are pissed off with the bullshit, this is different, it is your customer by-passing you to hear things other customers own.

 

[nando]

quote

They are trade shows and people are pissed off with the bullshit, this is different, it is your customer by-passing you to hear things other customers own.

cool, it's different,
nando.

 

[Dom_]

Scalford doesn't need to stop, there is a lot of good will towards it, and if allowed others will make sure it doesn't die. BUT there is one thing that needs to happen and that is for Wigwam and especially the owner to get his finger out and start discussing it on the forum, but so far there has been deliberate silence, even when Flatty tried to stir the thread was closed.

I have searched Wigwam since its new incarnation and I can't find any mention of the show even last years - very strange.

As happened last year and this, the show forums are archived to stop this sort of navel gazing between shows.

 

[Richard Dunn]

As happened last year and this, the show forums are archived to stop this sort of navel gazing between shows.

So are you saying the show is going ahead without Chester Group?