Thread Derailment

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wasen't a famous saying that rats desert a sinking ship? i was made to walk the plank, quit funny really, as for dev he has more intelligenge to warry about tidious themes,
nando.
 
Richard Dunn said:
How curious! my post was between #6 and#7, part of it refering to school playground behaviour, so the following posts are refering to playgrounds. Can you see it still there or has it been binned and dissapeared.

But the main posts were removed from the Scalford thread, but that still seems to make some sense.
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Mods/admin have the option to use either soft or hard deletion of posts and threads.

Spam will usually always be hard deleted - which means zapped and gone forever.
Usually the soft delete option is used which makes the post or thread vanish from view for all but mod/admin who can still see it - it still appears under the username as a post but with 'this post has been deleted by X' at the bottom, and the reason.
It is useful as it allows decisions to be reconsidered, and would also be valuable if, for example a threat of physical harm were made against a member or the forum needed to retain posts in a libel action.
 
RobHolt said:
Mods/admin have the option to use either soft or hard deletion of posts and threads.

Spam will usually always be hard deleted - which means zapped and gone forever.
Usually the soft delete option is used which makes the post or thread vanish from view for all but mod/admin who can still see it - it still appears under the username as a post but with 'this post has been deleted by X' at the bottom, and the reason.
It is useful as it allows decisions to be reconsidered, and would also be valuable if, for example a threat of physical harm were made against a member or the forum needed to retain posts in a libel action.
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Can't do that at Subjectivist, it is either complete delete or leave up.
 
zanash said:
The mods need to step in much earlier and warn the miscreant ...say with a yellow card warning ....[seems to work elsewhere] before a final red card and early bath ...
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What, so that the arrant nonsense spouted by technically illiterate, wooly minded and gullible new age audiophools just goes unchallenged?

Dream on, Zanash.

With regard to the "plastic" debacle, PMMA is a plastic and a polymer. No one should take offence at the accurate description and classification of a material.

I for one will always challenge foo. I will always ask for hard evidence. I will always disregard the"I trust my ears" argument.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
What, so that the arrant nonsense spouted by technically illiterate, wooly minded and gullible new age audiophools just goes unchallenged?

Dream on, Zanash.

With regard to the "plastic" debacle, PMMA is a plastic and a polymer. No one should take offence at the accurate description and classification of a material.

I for one will always challenge foo. I will always ask for hard evidence. I will always disregard the"I trust my ears" argument.

Chris
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Chris, Rob has already stated out stance in post #11.

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showpost.php?p=275742&postcount=11

And haven't we had enough of plastic v polymers?
 
Dev, that may well be what Rob thinks of the situation and he's as welcome to his own viewpoint as anyone else is, but when he starts enforcing his viewpoint, particularly when he's effectively telling Chris and i what we 'think', then he's heading off towards fascism at an alarming rate.

I assume Chris is just as willing to have his views and experiences put under the microscope as I am mine, there's nothing you can't ask me about regarding my postings and i welcome the enquiry.

You can't give posters the right to make statements, incorrect and otherwise without also giving readers the right to question them. You can't allow people to spread misinformation and rumour unchallenged, it's preposterous that you should be even considering it.

if posters have hang ups about use of language and struggle to communicate decently with others then really that's their tough shit. They should go take a PR class or have some counselling.
Stop, and think about it. We aren't the ones banned from multiple forums for our online behaviour, why should we be censured to appease those who are.
 
sq225917 said:
Dev, that may well be what Rob thinks of the situation and he's as welcome to his own viewpoint as anyone else is, but when he starts enforcing his viewpoint, particularly when he's effectively telling Chris and i what we 'think', then he's heading off towards fascism at an alarming rate.

I assume Chris is just as willing to have his views and experiences put under the microscope as I am mine, there's nothing you can't ask me about regarding my postings and i welcome the enquiry.

You can't give posters the right to make statements, incorrect and otherwise without also giving readers the right to question them. You can't allow people to spread misinformation and rumour unchallenged, it's preposterous that you should be even considering it.

if posters have hang ups about use of language and struggle to communicate decently with others then really that's their tough shit. They should go take a PR class or have some counselling, or keep taking the lithium, or something.

Stop, and think about it. We aren't the ones banned from multiple forums for our online behaviour, why should we be censured to appease those who are.
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Not quite what I was saying Simon. I think it's only natural to challenge any claims that seem incorrect/absurd etc. etc. as long as this is done in a civilised way. I would expect Rob's views to be challenged as well, it's only right. Just don't challenge mine, that's where we draw the line :D.

I was agreeing with the following statement from Rob, which was in response to suggestions that mods should step in early to keep peace.

"If someone cannot defend their position wrt to strong opinions or claims about certain products, and appear to be cornered, I'm afraid thats just too bad. Moderators aren't going to intervene in such situations."

I thought that Chris had missed Rob's post and seemed to be making the same point. Perhaps I misread one of them.
 
Mescalito said:
I could say more fool you for falling for expectation bias & peer pressure, & then designing kit around those illusions, Richard.

But in the interests of a quiet life, I won't.

Chris:D
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I have no peers to pressure me apart from my wife and my cat :D

And it should be pretty obvious that if I designed kit around delusions then I wouldn't sell any because people wouldn't like the music they produce, that is not the case, so *your* so called illusions become realities for that person, and that is all that is important.

Music reproduction is not a science it is an art as far as the user is concerned. The same as someone goes into an art gallery to buy a painting. Yes there is science involved in making the paints and the canvas, but is that what they are buying? *Exactly* the same case with hi-fi and its ability to reproduce music to please the customer.
 
sq225917 said:
Dev, that may well be what Rob thinks of the situation and he's as welcome to his own viewpoint as anyone else is, but when he starts enforcing his viewpoint, particularly when he's effectively telling Chris and i what we 'think', then he's heading off towards fascism at an alarming rate.

I assume Chris is just as willing to have his views and experiences put under the microscope as I am mine, there's nothing you can't ask me about regarding my postings and i welcome the enquiry.

You can't give posters the right to make statements, incorrect and otherwise without also giving readers the right to question them. You can't allow people to spread misinformation and rumour unchallenged, it's preposterous that you should be even considering it.

if posters have hang ups about use of language and struggle to communicate decently with others then really that's their tough shit. They should go take a PR class or have some counselling.

Stop, and think about it. We aren't the ones banned from multiple forums for our online behaviour, why should we be censured to appease those who are.
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Simon, I think you have misread my post.
Read it again - it agrees with your position, that any position can be challenged.
 
Apologies I assumed it linked to the post where Rob admitted he thought we might be using 'plastic' for effect. So to speak.
 
Richard Dunn said:
I have no peers to pressure me apart from my wife and my cat :D

And it should be pretty obvious that if I designed kit around delusions then I wouldn't sell any because people wouldn't like the music they produce, that is not the case, so *your* so called illusions become realities for that person, and that is all that is important.

Music reproduction is not a science it is an art as far as the user is concerned. The same as someone goes into an art gallery to buy a painting. Yes there is science involved in making the paints and the canvas, but is that what they are buying? *Exactly* the same case with hi-fi and its ability to reproduce music to please the customer.
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I do not think music reproduction, with the obvious exception of the look of the kit is an art. Music, definitely yes, but the kit that reproduces it is very well understood technology, not art.

Design an amp with sufficiently low distortion, noise floor and sufficient output to drive a given pair of speakers without clipping and it will do the job. And there are many, many published and commercial designs that produce first rate results.

I have mostly LK series Linn kit. All bought second hand, with the exception of my Akurate DS. As stated above, it's specification is such that it makes a good fist of reproducing music. So does Naim Kit, so does NVA, Quad, numerous brands of japanese, american and european kit. I chose the Linn LK series because it's design is fully competant in the above sense, it has a nicely understated appearance, it holds it's 2nd hand value well, and is reliable as hell.

The money I saved goes on acquiring music, my true passion. 10, 500 CDs and a legacy of 1100 remaining LPs that I haven't yet got around to digitising.

Chris

PS You think you've got problems? We have 2 cats, both Siamese and very, very vocal
 
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Mescalito said:
I do not think music reproduction, with the obvious exception of the look of the kit is an art. Music, definitely yes, but the kit that reproduces it is very well understood technology, not art.

Design an amp with sufficiently low distortion, noise floor and sufficient output to drive a given pair of speakers without clipping and it will do the job. And there are many, many published and commercial designs that produce first rate results.

I have mostly LK series Linn kit. All bought second hand, with the exception of my Akurate DS. As stated above, it's specification is such that it makes a good fist of reproducing music. So does Naim Kit, so does NVA, Quad, numerous brands of japanese, american and european kit. I chose the Linn LK series because it's design is fully competant in the above sense, it has a nicely understated appearance, it holds it's 2nd hand value well, and is reliable as hell.

The money I saved goes on acquiring music, my true passion. 10, 500 CDs and a legacy of 1100 remaining LPs that I haven't yet got around to digitising.

Chris

PS You think you've got problems? We have 2 cats, both Siamese and very, very vocal
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So you look at specifications, and buy on that. I am sorry but we have a *totally* different perspective on hi-fi reality. But what I will tell you is you are by far in the minority.
 
Richard Dunn said:
So you look at specifications, and buy on that. I am sorry but we have a *totally* different perspective on hi-fi reality. But what I will tell you is you are by far in the minority.
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Not quite, Richard. I use specs to narrow the choice. Also, as I am sure you are aware, not many manufacturers actually publish meaningful specs. So I always audition as well.

I don't change my kit often, on average, I have kept my amps for between 10 & 12 years.

Chris
 
Richard Dunn said:
So you look at specifications, and buy on that. I am sorry but we have a *totally* different perspective on hi-fi reality. But what I will tell you is you are by far in the minority.
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Surely the best way to proceed when deciding on equipment is to both read up on reviews and specifications, and then try to get to listen to said equipment, preferably in one's own home. That way the technology is chosen both by its technical performance and also its ability to reproduce music.

Also, this wonderful hifi habit, hobby, way-of-life, business which we all share is almost completely subjective. Beauty, so to speak, is in the ear of the beholder!

:)
 
Most of the general public have no idea what to do with published specs: what they represent, what the criteria of meassurement is, etc. A large majority of those who still buy hifi read reviews and make their choice on "what's hot" aligned to "best price".

There are many amongst the various hifi forums who do have a basic understanding of specs and what they represent. They might use this information when listening at a dealers. I reckon most would still choose with their ears and eyes though, irrespective of published specifications.

I don't think your viewpoints are poles apart: if the equipment is at a dealers, you make the assumption that it must meet at least the basic operational requirements. After that, you just trust your ears (and hopefuly ignore the dancing salesman).
 
I had, of course, forgotten about the dancing salesman! It's a long time since I've seen one of those, and I suppose I presumed they had died out - they always used to remind me of Bruce Forsyth, I'm not sure why.

I agree specs are pretty meaningless when they are divorced from a proper listen to equipment. They can be useful if you do understand what they mean, but they certainly do not give a full picture of what a piece of equipment will actually sound like.
 
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