Flat earther?

Laugh if you wish, Rob. Like I said, I'm confident someone in your group can hear;-)

I will make one exception for my wine-into-syrup recipe. It has only been tried with olive gear. All bets are off with newer Naim since they claim they've dealt with vibration control in the new line's case work;-)
 
flatpopely said:
By adjusting the square wave response? Won't that have an adverse effect on measured abilty of the system to produce all frequencies in the same phase and amplitude?
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I think that is sort of what Richard means.
You can alter the measured performance of an amplifier and it might or might not have a subjective effect.
 
flatpopely said:
By adjusting the square wave response? Won't that have an adverse effect on measured abilty of the system to produce all frequencies in the same phase and amplitude?
Click to expand...

Your understanding of circuit topography is nil, yet you set yourself up as some sort of expert, so attempted communication on the subject with you would be a complete waste of time.
 
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Dave Simpson said:
Laugh if you wish, Rob. Like I said, I'm confident someone in your group can hear;-)

I will make one exception for my wine-into-syrup recipe. It has only been tried with olive gear. All bets are off with newer Naim since they claim they've dealt with vibration control in the new line's case work;-)
Click to expand...

So you blame vibration control as the reason for the effect.
In that case (no pun) why does the carpet produce such a predictable effect, given that the caret pile would likely improve isolation compare to a spiked stand?

Naim have not dealt dealt with issue in their current range because there was never an issue in the first place. it is product placement and differentiation in a crowned and declining market. As one of our politicians said to the electorate recently before selling his soul, 'do something different'. Doing something different isn't the same as doing something because it is necessary ;)
 
Richard Dunn said:
Aha! but it goes further than that, the opposite can also be the case.
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I might agree but if such a situation were ever demonstrated to me beyond reasonable doubt, I'd go in search of the measurements to define it. We might not be measuring the right thing.
 
Errr...that's what I said, direct to carpet sounds better than most stands.

The carpet is controlling vibration from all sources. Basically, it's converting much of what hits the cases from all sides into heat where it no longer affects the circuits.
 
Dave Simpson said:
Errr...that's what I said, direct to carpet sounds better than most stands.

The carpet is brick-walling vibration from all sources. Basically, it's converting much of what hits the cases from all sides into heat where it no longer affects the circuits.
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:confused: :newbie:
 
Dave Simpson said:
But are audible effects imaginary if not currently measurable?
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You must know my answer by now :)

I have yet to experience any audible different that cannot be explained.
If/when I do, I'll of course accept that our measured understanding is incomplete.

In every instance where I've thought a difference existed but there was no clear reason, that difference has vaporised when subjected to a blind dem. So that is always my acid test.

But in all this there are some things that are just so improbable and in defiance of all understanding that I dismiss them. The carpet taking away the leading edges of an amplifier is a good example.
 
Dave Simpson said:
Errr...that's what I said, direct to carpet sounds better than most stands.

The carpet is controlling vibration from all sources. Basically, it's converting much of what hits the cases from all sides into heat where it no longer affects the circuits.
Click to expand...

Did you ever do the test I suggested some weeks ago?

Placing your pre amp on top of a loudspeaker, cranking up the SPLs and recording the line out?

Worth doing. Use a good hi res recorder capable of going down to say -120db and then listen to what is on your recording.

Just hiss.

So if that is what enters your pre amp under such extreme conditions (ie nothing) why are you assuming that it will pick-up anything on a stand or the carpet?

I'll gladly entertain the argument with very high gain phono stages, TTs or valve circuits but not with other kit re vibration.
 
Richard Dunn said:
Obviously mine dealing with you, now stop wasting both of our times and go back to spamming your bit of metal.
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You may be interested to know I used to design electronic circuits for a living. I used to lay out circuit boards on film, build up circuits as prototypes and install/commission said circuits, 50% were audio circuits.

The RubiKon is going rather well thank you.
 
RobHolt said:
I might agree but if such a situation were ever demonstrated to me beyond reasonable doubt, I'd go in search of the measurements to define it. We might not be measuring the right thing.
Click to expand...

The point is I just don't bloody care, I used to try but now I just accept reality as I see (hear) it. I gave up designing with test gear and specs years ago because I got fed up with being lied to. I use the minimum necessary to build and repair, any circuit changes now come from my ears - full stop!
 
Richard Dunn said:
The point is I just don't bloody care, I used to try but now I just accept reality as I see it. I gave up designing with test gear and specs years ago because I got fed up with being lied to. I use the minimum necessary to build and repair, any circuit changes now come from my ears - full stop!
Click to expand...

Let's hope your hearing does not go the way of Beethoven.
 
RobHolt said:
Did you ever do the test I suggested some weeks ago?

Placing your pre amp on top of a loudspeaker, cranking up the SPLs and recording the line out?

Worth doing. Use a good hi res recorder capable of going down to say -120db and then listen to what is on your recording.

Just hiss.

So if that is what enters your pre amp under such extreme conditions (ie nothing) why are you assuming that it will pick-up anything on a stand or the carpet?

I'll gladly entertain the argument with very high gain phono stages, TTs or valve circuits but not with other kit re vibration.
Click to expand...

I would if had access to a recorder of any quality but I don't -one day perhaps.

Regardless, even if this test showed no difference, something is going on. The difference in the case of all olive gear direct to carpet is large. As I reported, it makes the Naim gear sound is if it were tubed.

FWIW, JV once commented they discovered during the 52's development line-level circuits were found to be one thousand times more sensitive to vibration than previously thought.
 
RobHolt said:
You must know my answer by now :)

I have yet to experience any audible different that cannot be explained.
If/when I do, I'll of course accept that our measured understanding is incomplete.

In every instance where I've thought a difference existed but there was no clear reason, that difference has vaporised when subjected to a blind dem. So that is always my acid test.

But in all this there are some things that are just so improbable and in defiance of all understanding that I dismiss them. The carpet taking away the leading edges of an amplifier is a good example.
Click to expand...

So what happens when the difference returns when sighted? Do you have to tell yourself each time you're imagining it?
 

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